I did it.... now with photos

[Bilbo]

After nearly seven months of research (soome of you here have contributed to this), I finally got myself my very own double bass. I listened to the arguments from everyone about trying thousands of instruments, preferably old ones, and all of the horror stories about the various pitfalls everyone has heard about. I also listened to the 'just do it' brigade, spoke to luthiers, dealers, players etc and looked all over the net for advice and guidance.

And then I made my decision.

I bought one from Gedo Musik in Germany. Get this: its a five string (high C). I looked at several others and was attracted to the idea of a 5 string and, luckily enough, the no.1 call guy for jazz in the area where I live is a 5 string player (Bernie Hodgkins) so we talked and he convinced my that my reservations were unwarranted and so I just went for it. It cost 1,700 euros (£1350 +p+p) and it all came in at £1,458 (inc. bow and case). Here is a link to the bass at the on-line store.

[url="http://www.gedo-musik.de/shop/product.php?id_product=177"]http://www.gedo-musik.de/shop/product.php?id_product=177[/url]

Only concern is the usual strings issue and I have some Evah Pirazzi's on order but I gigged with the bass today (two sets in a piano/sax/bass trio) and it sounded great (my playing was a bit clumpy but I had only 30 minutes practice on the instrument before I got to gig it so I can't complain). Couple of dodgy moments with the high C but nothing grave. Ok, its not an Italian bass but the instrument is a Czech made, fully carved bit of kit with ebony fingerboard (the neck is two octaves and a whole tone long (equivalent of 26 frets). That means my range is from low E to D a whole tone short of 4 octaves higher . Gets me well into the cellos range so I am going to spend some time working on the arco stuff - I have a French and German bow available to me so will spend some time with each to ascertain which type works for me (I have at last found an arco teacher locally - cellist by trade but also plays DB). The build quality is very good and I am happy with the purchase - its not a dream bass by any standards but, for a beginner like me, I could ask for no more on my available budget.

I will get some photos up as soon as I can.

[fatback]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='885812' date='Jul 4 2010, 09:08 PM']After nearly seven months of research (soome of you here have contributed to this), I finally got myself my very own double bass.[/quote]

Wow, huge congrats

Have a happy happy time.

Edited July 4, 2010 by fatback

[waynepunkdude]

Sounds like a really interesting instrument, looking forward to pics.

[thisnameistaken]

Looks pretty.

I have to say on my bass the string that gives me the most grief is the G, I find I have to really play it with perfect intonation and confident hands to get a good sound out of it. I would be very nervous of using a high C string, I'd assume it would be so weedy it would need a very confident player to make the most of it.

That said, I would appreciate not having to change position so often.

So good luck mate!

[Bilbo]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='885824' date='Jul 4 2010, 09:16 PM']I would be very nervous of using a high C string, I'd assume it would be so weedy it would need a very confident player to make the most of it.[/quote]

Interestingly, and this was one of the things Bernie mentioned when we discussed the option, the notes on the high C ring truer than the same notes higher up on the G string, much the same as when you play notes on the G string that also appear higher up the D. It doesn't sound thin at all. Will be even better with the Evah's (had to source a Evah High C from the US, though (Quinn Violins)!!)

[thisnameistaken]

Oh sure I understand that, but it's the requisite precision that would scare me.

FWIW I've got Evahs on my bass and the G can easily sound minging if I don't stop the note perfectly and strike the string with real intent. It's good for more expressive stuff but playing bop style with no vibrato and solid dynamics (or even some of the old rocksteady tunes we play acoustically where I play harmony passages on the G) it will sound foul a lot quicker than a thicker-sounding note on a lower string.

[dougal]

[quote]Interestingly, and this was one of the things Bernie mentioned when we discussed the option, the notes on the high C ring truer than the same notes higher up on the G string, much the same as when you play notes on the G string that also appear higher up the D. It doesn't sound thin at all.[/quote]

I was watching the bassists at the royal festival hall today (Icarus, if anyone's interested) and they seemed to spend most of their time half way up the neck (say, Simandl's 3rd position). I was going to ask major-minor if it was something to do with tone or more likely a lot of upper-mid register stuff. I spend most of my time hacking around in half & first position.




Well, not really. But come on man.

Edited July 4, 2010 by dougal

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='dougal' post='885916' date='Jul 4 2010, 10:50 PM']I was watching the bassists at the royal festival hall today (Icarus, if anyone's interested) and they seemed to spend most of their time half way up the neck (say, Simandl's 3rd position). I was going to ask major-minor if it was something to do with tone or more likely a lot of upper-mid register stuff. I spend most of my time hacking around in half & first position.[/quote]
Like many of my colleagues, I centre my playing on the mid positions wherever possible. This has several advantages:

From this mid position, you can more easily access the higher reaches, as well as the lowest notes.

The notes are slightly closer together as you go up the fingerboard so less stretch is required and the hand will stay more relaxed for longer.

If you need a more mellow tone, its always better to play in the mid positions as you will then mostly be on the thicker strings.
Its also easier to get a staccato pianissimo passage to work this way, without getting a scratchy sound.

Re: open strings:
Rather than use an open A, for instance, I will tend to finger this note (on the E string) partly so I have the option of using vibrato (where appropriate) but also so I can adjust the intonation if necessary. This means I will be in a mid position and can finger subsequent notes similarly.

There are 2 guide points on DB - one being the nut (you will often see players just touching the nut with the first finger before then aiming for the required note). The other is the bend in the neck. Feeling that bend with the thumb can then guide you to your note. So for instance, if the first note of a passage is Eb on the A string and you want to play it with your 2nd finger, a quick "feel" of the neck bend will then help you aim for that place with some accuracy (this takes practice of course).

Having said all this, there are times when half and first positions are ideal (and open strings too !).
A big singing melody on the G string can sometimes work best purely on this string, just moving up and down rather than crossing onto the D. Its all down to context of course. And we all have differing ideas about ways to finger. I sometimes try to copy what the Principal bass is doing so we can have a uniform tone.

The Major

[TPJ]

Congrats on the bass Bilbo

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='886044' date='Jul 5 2010, 08:43 AM']Having said all this, there are times when half and first positions are ideal (and open strings too !).
A big singing melody on the G string can sometimes work best purely on this string, just moving up and down rather than crossing onto the D. Its all down to context of course. And we all have differing ideas about ways to finger.[/quote]

I had read something about playing more up and down the neck on a DB and more across the neck with an EB, but it's such an individual choice. I do both.

+1 on the context statement.

[gnasher1993]

Welcome to the dark side, Bilbo!

[BobVbass]

Well Done Bilbo! I'll be joining you in a few weeks - Gedo's stuff looks great but what made you choose them over Thomann etc etc?

[Bilbo]

[quote name='bob_pickard' post='886234' date='Jul 5 2010, 12:54 PM']Well Done Bilbo! I'll be joining you in a few weeks - Gedo's stuff looks great but what made you choose them over Thomann etc etc?[/quote]

The fully carved bit was part of it (Thomann's 5 strings are laminate if I recall correctly), as was the fact that they are Czech not Chinese. 27frets was also very positive about his Gedo bass and we discussed it at length. Add a two year guarantee that would not be available with a private sale and I was sold.

My personal view, and it is no more than that, was that I could agonise over getting the perfect bass and tie myself on knots seeking the holy grail of basses or I could get a sense of what I want and then go for it. I believe that I learn to play the basses and guitars I buy rather than expecting them to 'fit me'. Endless tweaking of action and string size etc have always struck me as of limited value. I spend time with my instruments in order to make the minute adjustments I need to make making music possible. Its not an easy task and I don't think it will be significantly easier if I get this instrument over that one.

Two basses and 5 guitars later, I have never been disappointed. The basses that have come and gone have done so primarily because they are fretted.

[waynepunkdude]

Gotta say that it's 25% instrument and 75% player and from what I've heard your 75% is a huge standard where as I rely a lot on the 25%, probably why you don't get the urge to buy new stuff all of the time.

[Bilbo]

Now with a sample (photos coming - camera ran out of juice!!)

[thisnameistaken]

Is that recording with the Evahs or the stock strings? Sounds very full, I like it.

[Bilbo]

Recorded in Cubase through a Rode NT1A microphone using the stock strings and no eq. The only issue that impacts significantly on the sound is mic placement (it was near the bridge about a foot in front of the bass). I think it sounds cool as is so am really looking forward to getting teh Evah's on it (they have not arrived yet - not expecting them for a couple of weeks as I ordered from the US).

[Bilbo]

Photos added at last

[thisnameistaken]

Is that a Bassmax?

Any particular reason why you stuck it in the treble side of the bridge? And why you didn't include its output in your recording?

Curious because I've got one on my bass but it has never sounded right despite endless fecking with it.

Also, I'm guessing you're about 6'3"?

Edited July 7, 2010 by thisnameistaken

[Bilbo]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='888993' date='Jul 7 2010, 09:50 PM']Is that a Bassmax?

Any particular reason why you stuck it in the treble side of the bridge? And why you didn't include its output in your recording?

Curious because I've got one on my bass but it has never sounded right despite endless fecking with it.

Also, I'm guessing you're about 6'3"? [/quote]

Yes but it is evenly spaced across the bridge (under the gaps not under the strings as there are 5 strings and 4 gaps)- the angle of the shot distorts it. It sounds pretty cool through my Eden (flat). I didn't record with it for the sample as I wanted people to hear the bass not the pick up.

[thisnameistaken]

So it's not wedged in the treble-side bridge wing, but somewhere else?

[Bilbo]

No. Sorry, mate, I got the name of the pick up mixed up. It is a K&K model. It consists of 4 contact microphones placed under each string (see the product here at Golihur). I chose it as it was an affordable option when I was playing a borrowed bass. My long term aim is to get a Realist but, for now, this is doing the job wel enough.

[url="http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1426-KANDK_SOUND_DOUBLE_BIG_TWIN_UPRIGHT_BASS_PICKUP.html"]http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1426-...ASS_PICKUP.html[/url]

[PaulKing]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='889118' date='Jul 7 2010, 11:26 PM']So it's not wedged in the treble-side bridge wing, but somewhere else?[/quote]

(EDIT - oops, missed bilbos reply before posting this...)

Certainly looks like it's in the treble side.

That's not uncommon, I've finally switched mine over to the treble side too.
Depends on your bass of course, but tends to give a more defined sound, emphasizes mids and finger noise more. If your bass tends to sound boomy with the piezo on the bass side, try it on the other side.

It's a shame bassmax seems to be so sensitive to fit. Underwood just slots in and sounds good. Bassmax should be fairly tight, so that if you wiggle the cable it doesn't move, and you feel like the cable will strain if you try to pull it out, but if you hold the actual bug it will wiggle out without too much resistance. Use sax reeds, credit cards, guitar pics whatever to pack it out if necessary. Sometimes twisting the bug round so that it's at an angle, even half in and half out of the slot, can improve the sound ... seems you need to find the narrowest bit of the slot and get that centred on the bug (assuming your slot ain't perfectly parallel... which is likely).

And of course your pre-amp makes a difference.

Are you using one? Mine sounds much better through an LR Baggs preamp than the K+K preamp.

Sorry.. derail

Nice bass! Nice playing! I'm sure Evahs will give it some extra warmth and sex...

Edited July 8, 2010 by PaulKing

[Steve A]

Nice bass, nice collection of jazz books. You've got more jazz books than my local Waterstones! Lovely.

[geoffbassist]

I've enjoyed Reading your thread. The mp3 sounds great and the bass look fantasic.
Enjoy :-)

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Steve Amadeo' post='889235' date='Jul 8 2010, 08:39 AM']Nice bass, nice collection of jazz books. You've got more jazz books than my local Waterstones! Lovely.[/quote]

There are two more bookcases full - Waterstones in Oxford Street couldn't compete!!