Chris Squire Electra Evolution

[xilddx]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='1018651' date='Nov 10 2010, 12:17 PM']That's not likely to be the pre's fault! Most preamps would display that behaviour... even a passive set up. That's physics in action... sounds like you have unfortunate pickup spacing [/quote]

Yeah, that's what I said in an email to John. I asked his advice but said it could be the spacing and I'll have to live with it. Even Fender Jazzes had that problem.

Cheers.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Wil' post='1018705' date='Nov 10 2010, 01:02 PM']Great playing as always Nige.[/quote]
Cheers Wil

[Wil]

[quote name='silddx' post='1018796' date='Nov 10 2010, 02:01 PM']Yeah, that's what I said in an email to John. I asked his advice but said it could be the spacing and I'll have to live with it. Even Fender Jazzes had that problem.

Cheers.[/quote]

Happens on both my basses too, although I find it to be more of a mid scoop when both pups are on. It adds more tonal options I suppose.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Wil' post='1018814' date='Nov 10 2010, 02:16 PM']Happens on both my basses too, although I find it to be more of a mid scoop when both pups are on. It adds more tonal options I suppose.[/quote]
This is more like a bass shovel

[Wil]

[quote name='silddx' post='1018822' date='Nov 10 2010, 02:20 PM']This is more like a bass shovel [/quote]

Are you sure the pickups aren't wired out of phase with each other? IE, swap the hot and cold outputs of one of the pickups around and see if you get the same issue? Sounds like exactly the issue I had when I first wired up my parts bass, it sucked all the low end out and left me with a very twangy, thin tone when both pickups were on full.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Wil

[xilddx]

[quote name='Wil' post='1018826' date='Nov 10 2010, 02:30 PM']Are you sure the pickups aren't wired out of phase with each other? IE, swap the hot and cold outputs of one of the pickups around and see if you get the same issue? Sounds like exactly the issue I had when I first wired up my parts bass, it sucked all the low end out and left me with a very twangy, thin tone when both pickups were on full.[/quote]
Thanks mate, I'll give that a shot! I'll wager you could well be right. Cheers!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='silddx' post='1018796' date='Nov 10 2010, 02:01 PM']Yeah, that's what I said in an email to John. I asked his advice but said it could be the spacing and I'll have to live with it. Even Fender Jazzes had that problem.

Cheers.[/quote]

Indeed - a Fender Jazz is the textbook example of this, although it's more of a mid scoop and (volume drop) as suggested by Wil. That's what you are going to get when you are getting pickups picking up two different signals that are then summed together. You are going to additions and harmonic cancellations happening all over the shops as you have discovered. The only system I know that counteracts this effect is the GB circuit - you don't get any volume dips there... and that gives an advantage in that you can place your pickups wherever you like and the circuit will compensate for the difference in phase. Your build is a bit more complicated - the fact that the pickups are not parallel to each other are going to add to your phasing nightmare...

The positioning of pickups on dual pickup instruments have probably been through many prototyping phases and mathematical calculations to work out how severe the phasing issues will be. I dare say that Leo experiemented with pickup placement during the jazz bass' conception although the dual volume concept instead of a "pan" make things more manageable.

The most "pure" signal is going to be a single pickup at the bridge - in fact, probably a piezo - as soon as you add a second pickup, you will start to have phase issues. As soon as you start using magnetic coil, the uncertainty increases further - your tone is then shaped by the magnet strength, magnet type, number of turns, type of cable... and the list goes on. Pickups are certainly a mine field... and sadly, it's one of those areas that are clouded by complete blx and marketing hype.

Double check your north and souths on the wiring though... out of phase pickups will cause you some problems - especially when panning.

Edited November 10, 2010 by EBS_freak

[xilddx]

Thanks Russ, appreciate it, mind you I'd have appreciated it more about 14 weeks ago just kidding, TBH, I oftten think, for me, that two pups on a bass are a waste of time, I almost never deviate from the neck pup. But two look better

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='silddx' post='1019007' date='Nov 10 2010, 04:56 PM']Thanks Russ, appreciate it, mind you I'd have appreciated it more about 14 weeks ago just kidding, TBH, I oftten think, for me, that two pups on a bass are a waste of time, I almost never deviate from the neck pup. But two look better [/quote]

I don't understand why the bridge pickup went on the piss - it looked to be straight up until the point of the scratchplate being installed. Was that intentional?

To be honest, moving the pickups wouldn't be a big issue - I would play around with pickup spacing (nicking some measurements from a Warwick for H S spacing as a starting point) to minimise the problem. Route the cavity out and then find the pickup position that suit you best (remember you will always have a comprimise as there will be points where phase cancellation occurs).Any extra space caused by the route could be filled with blocks of wood and repainted to give an invisible finish (it would be all under the pickguard anyway)... but it would cost you a new pickguard to accommodate the new pickup positions.

Must admit the phasing issue is something I wanted to try out on the Enfield basses - their spacing looks a little odd and I reckon you could get all weird phasey happenings with that! (or maybe not - Martin may have been through numerous prototyping phases with pcikup position... or just dropped lucky... or not!)

Edited November 10, 2010 by EBS_freak

[xilddx]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='1019062' date='Nov 10 2010, 05:39 PM']I don't understand why the bridge pickup went on the piss - it looked to be straight up until the point of the scratchplate being installed. Was that intentional?

To be honest, moving the pickups wouldn't be a big issue - I would play around with pickup spacing (nicking some measurements from a Warwick for H S spacing as a starting point) to minimise the problem. Route the cavity out and then find the pickup position that suit you best (remember you will always have a comprimise as there will be points where phase cancellation occurs).Any extra space caused by the route could be filled with blocks of wood and repainted to give an invisible finish (it would be all under the pickguard anyway)... but it would cost you a new pickguard to accommodate the new pickup positions.

Must admit the phasing issue is something I wanted to try out on the Enfield basses - their spacing looks a little odd and I reckon you could get all weird phasey happenings with that! (or maybe not - Martin may have been through numerous prototyping phases with pcikup position... or just dropped lucky... or not!)[/quote]
TBH, it's not the sort of issue that's going to bother me much. Certainly not for the effort and cash it would take.

I decided at the last minute to position the HB like that, so I could get at least one pole under the outside strings. It sounds really good actually, even response on each string too. It's a good sound, not like my Warwick bridge pups which are too nasal for me, on the CS it's much further from the bridge.

Those Enfield pups must have been a nightmare in terms of R&D. Can't really see the point either

[xilddx]

John East got back to me and he also suggested that one of the pups is out of phase and to swap the hot and cold (or what I thought were hot and cold) around which may well solve the problem.

[Bottle]

[quote name='silddx' post='1021406' date='Nov 12 2010, 01:46 PM']John East got back to me and he also suggested that one of the pups is out of phase and to swap the hot and cold (or what I thought were hot and cold) around which may well solve the problem.[/quote]
Hey Nigel

If you'd like, I can have a look at the circuit wiring for you. How have you wired the humbucker?

This might help (although it's for a DiMarzio HB pickup, the process should be the same). You'll need to identify which wire is which from the MEC HB.

HTH, Ian

[xilddx]

[quote name='Bottle' post='1021493' date='Nov 12 2010, 02:40 PM']Hey Nigel

If you'd like, I can have a look at the circuit wiring for you. How have you wired the humbucker?

This might help (although it's for a DiMarzio HB pickup, the process should be the same). You'll need to identify which wire is which from the MEC HB.

HTH, Ian[/quote]

Hey thanks Ian. I have it sorted though. It's solderless and I know wires to swap. There's no useful info on the MEC wire colours but I know which is which now. Thanks anyway, greatly appreciated mate.

[daz]

[quote]Video works fine if you got to Siddx's channel and then load it.[/quote]

Ah cheers i can now hear it. Only t hing is i cant record it with my youtube recorder from within Si's channel for some reason. Great stuff though.
PS: glad to see someone else playing with a pick. (by 'someone else' i mean a 'someone' who can actually play well)

EDIT: [i]Want to hear the sound? [/i]
Wierd. i went from Si's 'Channel' in youtube and clicked on 'See commnets' button and it went out of Si's channel back out to 'normal youtube' and all of a suddden i could hear the sound??

pps: Apparently there is an hour long vhs video called Chris Squire "Star Licks" where he talks quite a bit about his guitar. He why has an interesting sound and his unique method of playing that is half pick half thumb.

Anyway. So I assume the next Chris Squier tribute project is gonna be [i]'The big one' [/i]eh? Pictued below. I double Dare you. No in fact I [i]triple[/i] DARE you
.
[url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dazgreen/5170022914/"][/url]
.
[quote]This one-of-a-kind triple neck Wal bass was owned and operated by one of the ultimate geniuses of the low end – Chris Squire of Yes. The lower neck is fretless, the middle neck is a “regular” bass, and the upper neck is a guitar with a Telecaster-style pickup and tailpiece arrangement. Here’s the kicker: Chris reconfigured the guitar neck into a 3 double-string octave bass that he tuned AA-DD-GG.[/quote]

Edited November 12, 2010 by daz

[xilddx]

[quote name='Bottle' post='1021493' date='Nov 12 2010, 02:40 PM']Hey Nigel

If you'd like, I can have a look at the circuit wiring for you. How have you wired the humbucker?

This might help (although it's for a DiMarzio HB pickup, the process should be the same). You'll need to identify which wire is which from the MEC HB.

HTH, Ian[/quote]

Hello Ian, swapped the hot and cold on the HB and it works beautifully! With both pups on centered blend, it has a really throaty mid scooped sound with no loss of bass or volume. Superb! Again, thanks for the offer man!

Daz, triple neck?? You are seriously off your napper mate I had a white headless Steinberger double neck until recently, mrs silddx nearly left me saying she couldn't tolerate that level of sheer ugliness in our home. I thought it looked beautiful

[Marvin]

[quote name='silddx' post='1021914' date='Nov 12 2010, 08:45 PM']I had a white headless Steinberger double neck until recently, mrs silddx nearly left me saying she couldn't tolerate that level of sheer ugliness in our home. I thought it looked beautiful [/quote]

She's obviously a women of impeccable taste mrs silddx

You've done a cracking job with paint again, you've got a bit of a flair for that. Good work mate.

[paul h]

[quote name='silddx' post='1021914' date='Nov 12 2010, 08:45 PM']Hello Ian, swapped the hot and cold on the HB and it works beautifully! With both pups on centered blend, it has a really throaty mid scooped sound with no loss of bass or volume. Superb![/quote]

So pleased you got it sorted mate...nice one.

[xilddx]

[quote name='paul h' post='1022410' date='Nov 13 2010, 02:00 PM']So pleased you got it sorted mate...nice one.[/quote]
Thanks Paul.

I had another problem, the barrel jack was cutting out if I moved the jack plug. So last night I reamed out a bigger hole and fitted a standard Switchcraft using the black side mounting from the Rockbass body. The reamer wobbled so I has to fill in a bit of the hole, couple of mm, with Milliput. Anyway, tiny bit of a mess but the bass is now working perfectly. Played it in rehearsal tonight, blew my mind

[gilmour]

Thsoe Barrel jacks always go wrong - sh*tty things. I must've replaced the one in my Yamaha half a dozen times.

[xilddx]

[quote name='gilmour' post='1026500' date='Nov 16 2010, 11:04 PM']Thsoe Barrel jacks always go wrong - sh*tty things. I must've replaced the one in my Yamaha half a dozen times.[/quote]
I heard this a number of times, but the MEC ones on my Warwicks have been faultless.

[ShergoldSnickers]

I only cottoned onto this thread recently - pennance is due...

As the first real bassline I (almost) learned was 'Heart of the Sunrise', I have a natural affinity to things Yes and Chris Squire. I have to say that your bass is a monumental triumph of gargantuan proportions Nigel. Just superb.

Edited November 17, 2010 by ShergoldSnickers

[xilddx]

[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' post='1026606' date='Nov 17 2010, 08:25 AM']I only cottoned onto this thread recently - pennance is due...

As the first real bassline I (almost) learned was 'Heart of the Sunrise', I have a natural affinity to things Yes and Chris Squire. I have to say that your bass is a monumental triumph of gargantuan proportions Nigel. Just superb. [/quote]
I love Heart of the Sunrise! I think Fragile is probably my favourite Yes album, at the moment anyway.

Thanks for the lovely compliment mate

[Bottle]

[quote name='silddx' post='1021914' date='Nov 12 2010, 08:45 PM']Hello Ian, swapped the hot and cold on the HB and it works beautifully! With both pups on centered blend, it has a really throaty mid scooped sound with no loss of bass or volume. Superb! Again, thanks for the offer man![/quote]
No worries feller!! Glad you got there in the end (plus you can always wire it with a coil-split switch later, for even more tonal options ). Nice playing in the vid too, super stuff. Hope to catch up with you at the SE bash.

Have a good one!

Ian

[wizbat]

Congratulations on such a fine job and thanks for reminding me what a great bassline that is.

[xilddx]

Here she is in action (and the Electra ) on Saturday night at a big Bollywood charity show for St Lukes Hospice.




Bottle and Wiz, thanks for your help and very kind words

Edited November 22, 2010 by silddx