Would you fit a J Retro preamp into a vintage jazz bass?

[Gunsfreddy2003]

I have been reading a lot about the range of preamps made by John East and the article in this months BGM has made this even worse!! My 1974 jazz bass has a lovely sound and tone but compared to my GB Rumour it feels a little lacking in the EQ dept!!

There is also a huge difference in the output from the two basses which does cause a problem or two as well.

My worry is that would adding a pre-amp de-value the bass in any way ( it has been stripped and re-finished at some point in its life so is not 100% original) so not sure that it would but also does this begin to move away from the essence of a 70's jazz bass? In that it is a simple to use passive bass with a certain sound which is what you actually buy them for!!

Interested to hear thoughts and experiences on this one.

Cheers guys.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='889213' date='Jul 8 2010, 08:10 AM']My worry is that would adding a pre-amp de-value the bass in any way ( it has been stripped and re-finished at some point in its life so is not 100% original)[/quote]
Don't worry about devaluing it. Unless you have to route it to fit everything in, it's reversible.

Passive Fenders sound like they do. If you don't like that sound, or you want more EQ, go for it.

[Platypus]

I'd keep the jazz all original and get an outboard pre - such as a Sadowsky, which will give you some high end sizzle. Excellent kit (2 band preamp and DI) and I think there's one for sale on here just now.

[Pete Academy]

I always thought that when I'd get a Jazz I'd butcher it - new pickups, bridge, East preamp etc. Now I've got one, I find it's great how it is.

As WOT says, no worries about devaluing, as everything is reversible.

[supabock]

My 1974 jazz bass has a lovely sound and tone but compared to my GB Rumour it feels a little lacking in the EQ dept!!

To be honest with you, many basses will lack in EQ compared to the GB you have. I'm not sure comparing them is a good idea as they are two distinctive and very different instruments.

I have just added the P Retro to my stock P bass, for more variation without loosing the traditional sounds it had already. There was the other issue of needing to get cleaner recorded signal from the bass, with a more significant eq also.

I think as your bass is not stock and has a certain value albeit probably less than it would have had, had it been in original condition without the refin, you are unlikely to make any significant impact in its value by adding the retro.

I would talk to John East about the functionality of the Retro with the pickups you have currently in the bass and then you can get a feel for what the retro will do for you. He's a great chap and will always fiond time to iron out peoples fears and concerns.

[BigRedX]

What's wrong with the tone controls on your amp?

Also while the J-Retro may well give you a bit more output it probably still won't bring it up to GB levels...

[fingerz]

I echo the other comments Re value. As far as I know the East plate will go straight in the hole you have, so it's reversible if you do ever want to 'undo' the work.

For me, a good jazz bass is all about how it sits in the band. I've had all the trimmings active basses before that a Jazz has blown out of the water when you listen in the context of a live gig or a recording session, they sit really nicely on the hole. If it's in this context that you feel the bass is lacking, then I'd say go for the change. If it's a head to head bedroom test, then I'd be a bit more apprehensive. An outboard pre is not such a bad idea in this sense if you fancy something less permanent.. BTW, you could wire any after market pre amp into a box to have an outboard preamp and take your pick! John East is a great guy, the Glockenklang Preamp might be worth a look, wire it into a box, best of both worlds... ??

Good luck in your procrastination..

Edited July 8, 2010 by fingerz

[Gunsfreddy2003]

Thanks guys - some really good ideas and thoughts there. Might look at the outboard pre-amp idea. Are the Sadowsky ones any good?

[redstriper]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='889213' date='Jul 8 2010, 08:10 AM']There is also a huge difference in the output from the two basses which does cause a problem or two as well.[/quote]

How so?

[Gunsfreddy2003]

The electronics in a GB are custom built and have an EQ and signal output that you would not believe - it is very hot indeed. Compare this with the passive pick ups in a 35 year old bass and you get chalk and cheese!


[quote name='redstriper' post='889711' date='Jul 8 2010, 05:39 PM']How so?[/quote]

[redstriper]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='889749' date='Jul 8 2010, 06:21 PM']The electronics in a GB are custom built and have an EQ and signal output that you would not believe - it is very hot indeed. Compare this with the passive pick ups in a 35 year old bass and you get chalk and cheese![/quote]

Sorry, I'm thick but I still don't see the problem - can't you just turn the gain up on your amp to compensate?

[Platypus]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='889674' date='Jul 8 2010, 04:49 PM']Thanks guys - some really good ideas and thoughts there. Might look at the outboard pre-amp idea. Are the Sadowsky ones any good?[/quote]

I think they are very good units. It was OutToPlayJazz's positive comments on here, that gave me the idea to try it out. He has been using the preamp with a passive Jazz. There's one for sale here for £130 - the going rate 2nd hand and you would get that back easily enough if you decided to move it on.

I once had a J Retro installed on a Lakland Daryl Jones bass, though I wouldn't go that route now, I would choose an outboard pre.

Though TBH, I mostly play passive now

[Pete Academy]

If it ain't broke...

[Gunsfreddy2003]

Do you have a link to the Sadowsky Preamp for sale thread?

[quote name='Platypus' post='889826' date='Jul 8 2010, 08:22 PM']I think they are very good units. It was OutToPlayJazz's positive comments on here, that gave me the idea to try it out. He has been using the preamp with a passive Jazz. There's one for sale here for £130 - the going rate 2nd hand and you would get that back easily enough if you decided to move it on.

I once had a J Retro installed on a Lakland Daryl Jones bass, though I wouldn't go that route now, I would choose an outboard pre.

Though TBH, I mostly play passive now[/quote]

[chris_b]

If you have a bass with a high signal and one with a low signal you could either get a 2 channel amp, like the Markbass LMK, or balance the output of each bass to the same level.

[Gunsfreddy2003]

I have actually managed to compensate for this a little by using a Catalinbread Serrano Picosso signal booster on my pedal board and just clicking that on when I use the jazz bass. TBH it doesn't really cause me a problem I was more interested in the extra EQ options available with the East preamp.

[quote name='chris_b' post='889921' date='Jul 8 2010, 10:15 PM']If you have a bass with a high signal and one with a low signal you could either get a 2 channel amp, like the Markbass LMK, or balance the output of each bass to the same level.[/quote]

[JPJ]

I have two j-retro equipped5 string jazz basses, my Overwater came equipped with one and I already had one in my Fender DLX. I also have a homebuilt precision v with John's BTB and mid-stack.

I can't speak highly enough of John's work. His circuits are first rate and give that classic fender bass tone, that somehow sits so well in a band mix.

I have no problem recommending him to you.

[Platypus]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=94100"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=94100[/url]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='889916' date='Jul 8 2010, 10:05 PM']Do you have a link to the Sadowsky Preamp for sale thread?[/quote]

[thisnameistaken]

If you want a hi-fi "super jazz" sound, why are you using a '74 Jazz?

Get a Sadowsky/Lakland/Other NYC Session Posebass and leave the poor thing alone.

[fingerz]

Check out this outboard pre amp discussion. Also check Talk bass for experiences of different pre amps..

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=94494&hl="]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=94494&hl=[/url]

if its worth mentioning. I've owned a GB (Spitfire) and Fender Jazz. The GB is nothing like the Jazz sound and I believe the way a jazz is made it will never sound like a GB for many reasons even if it is active. This is of course a good thing (IMO), and a good reason for owning two such basses. I just feel if you want GB sound, Jazz bass ain't the way. But an active circuit will give a jazz a more hi tech sound obviously. Hope this thread has some useful things for you anyway... Cheers

[Gunsfreddy2003]

You could have a point there!

Looks like the general consensus of opinion if to stay as is and use the GB as and when I need the sizzle!

As previously stated there is nothing "wrong" with the jazz I just wanted to check that I wasn't missing a trick by not installing an East pre-amp as so many people seem to change the bride, pick-ups and everything else on a jazz bass.


[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='890008' date='Jul 9 2010, 12:05 AM']If you want a hi-fi "super jazz" sound, why are you using a '74 Jazz?

Get a Sadowsky/Lakland/Other NYC Session Posebass and leave the poor thing alone.[/quote]

Edited July 10, 2010 by Gunsfreddy2003

[JTUK]

Big fan of East pre amps and use them in 2 basses. They are great and very powerful.
I also use a Tone Hammer if I go for the passive sound. I would expect the Sadowsky to do the same...liven the thing up a tad but that is becaseu I prefer active EQ.

It all depends where you want to put the tone control...onboard, go East retro, so you can undo your work, outboard, use Sadwowsky or Tone HAmmer and AN OTHER..or use your amp.

I prefer to use the East as it is all on the bass...and I don't need to go to the amp. I might tweak the amp for the room at sound check, but apart from volume, I don't touch it. The onboard pre is powerful in its own right.
The pedal would be second best but not as to-hand as the onboard, IME.

[Rich]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='889213' date='Jul 8 2010, 08:10 AM']My 1974 jazz bass has a lovely sound and tone but compared to my GB Rumour it feels a little lacking in the EQ dept!![/quote]
I would say this is a good thing. Unless you want to use the Jazz as a backup or 2nd bass to use at gigs, I think it's a great idea to have two different sounding basses. It's like having an Armani suit, plus a nice shirt & pair of chinos... you've got something to suit every occasion. I agree with the consensus -- if you want a sizzly hi-fi Jazz then buy one, but leave the 74 as is.

[discreet]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='891067' date='Jul 10 2010, 09:08 AM']so many people seem to change the bride[/quote]

Well, a change is as good as a rest.

[Gunsfreddy2003]

Ha ha - ok it was still early!

[quote name='discreet' post='891442' date='Jul 10 2010, 05:10 PM']Well, a change is as good as a rest. [/quote]