R'n'B/Funk bass suggestions

[bassjamm]

[center][b]CASE CLOSED - SEE 2nd POST, 3rd PAGE - AMPEG FILTH[/b][/center]

Hi guys,

I'm in a bit of a dilema, again

I'm having some issues with my on stage sound, can't get something that i like from the F Bass, maybe it's just me, i don't know...but i took it to the studio last night and it was sounding so sweet it's unbelievable...it really is a studio bass of the highest quality, no doubt about that.

So, i'm thinking, instead of using my Marleaux live, as it's fretless and i want some deep fretted grooves, maybe i could purchase myself a live bass, something that suits the r'n'b, big black sound that i love so much, and i thought i'd ask you guys...

So, my thoughts...most probably a fender style bass, i recently played one of the new Fender Jazz 24 basses thingies, the sound was wicked, but the quality of the instrument was a little poor...but then again, bearable!!! Or maybe even a Precision, i've never really got into them, but i'm loving all things Fender at the mo...do they acheive the big phat sound of the r'n'b genre? What about a Jazz/Precision special incorporating the JP pickup combo...played a Precision zone fretless recently, awesome sound, very ugly though!!!

Other options, my trusty old Ken Smith that mcgraham has up for grabs...that bass was by far the easiest bass to play that i have ever owned...incredible!!!

Only thing is, without selling the F Bass, funds are tight...so, i could raise £400 from the sale of my Bassix EUB, and i have one or two other things laying around...soooo...what do you guys reckon...

I guess this was just an excuse to relieve some pent up GAS stress..hehe!!

J

Edited December 24, 2007 by bassjamm

[Kiwi]

can I ask how do you know that its the bass which is the problem?

[bassjamm]

Certainly kind sir...because i get on fine with my fretless live...i just can't get a sound that i'm happy with from the F Bass on stage, although, i'm going to try again, but i'm getting agitated more and more with it. It's so frustrating being up there and not being happy with your sound. I'm happy using the fretless for the time being, but i'd like to have a fretted beast that i can use too, that i'm happy with.

As i've mentioned though, the F Bass is an awesome instrument, especially in the studio, i was there last night, and i just couldn't get enough of how smooth it sounds and the clarity, it really is a beautiful bass!

[wotnwhy]

a Rev Rumblefish maby?

only mention it because thats what i'm GASing for to get that Phat Phunk sound. but it's only minor GAS as my Shuker is [i]more[/i] than capable of doing it 8)

[mcgraham]

I hear you Jam, that is exactly the reason I'm selling on my Smith. As much as I love looking and ashamedly desiring some of these high end basses, whenever I try them or get them I just find myself drifting slowly back to my Geddy; it's truly a phenomenal plug'n'play bass with a great live tone upon the turning on of the amp. The Smith sounds great solo and does a few things very well, but the Geddy Custom blows it out of the water for fitting with every group I've played with. I can say that with confidence because it's the ONLY bass I've had and used the last few years.

My humble suggestion is that you check out just a standard Fender J, perhaps even replace the pickups as I did for something that'll throw in some serious meat. Feel free to pop over and try mine.

Mark

[ped]

Alright Jammy?

I am interested in your bass quest as I think our tastes are similar in many ways - we both dislike Kiwi for a start.

My feeling is that if you love the F bass in the studio, there is really no reason why that sound shouldn't be achievable live. When I first got my new Vigier 5 I had it sounding amazing in the studio (obviously my amazing playing helped, but you know, what can I say lol) and when using it live I had to start form kind of square one - the settings are all slightly different but the end result is the same sound. It might be worth taking some time with the F bass and really trying to nail that sweet spot with it and your rig. I am sure you will get there with such good equipment (and good playing, being serious)

It is a bit of a pain and especially when different venues need their own settings but once you get to 'know' the bass properly and get a bit more comfortable with your base tone you should be able to dial in that fat shizzle with little effort.

Or - get a fretted Marleaux to match! Or even better, a Carvin/Marleaux hybrid maybe? Seriously that would suit you down to the floor!

Cheers
ped

[Kiwi]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='99117' date='Dec 4 2007, 08:06 PM']The Smith sounds great solo and does a few things very well, but the Geddy Custom blows it out of the water for fitting with every group I've played with.[/quote]
Its funny, I find myself playing the Celinder P-bass often coz it fits the music and its OK but sounds a bit muddy if the amp isn't right up against a wall. I switched over to my Smith and suddenly the world seemed a better place - lows, clarity, mids etc. It was like sinking into a warm bath again.

I was just thinking about on stage acoustics, thats all, but if you've already hit a good sound with the Marleaux then that takes acoustics out of the equation.

What's the issue specifically with the F-Bass? Is it because you can't hear certain frequencies? Have you considered getting a different speaker set up for it perhaps?

[mcgraham]

[quote]Its funny, I find myself playing the Celinder P-bass often coz it fits the music and its OK but sounds a bit muddy if the amp isn't right up against a wall. I switched over to my Smith and suddenly the world seemed a better place - lows, clarity, mids etc. It was like sinking into a warm bath again.[/quote]

Good analogy there! It is interesting how different basses suit different people in such radically different ways. I found the Smith worked wonderfully with boosted treble and boosted bass, really had the sound that people want from a Smith (IMHO). I think I'd unknowingly found the tone I wanted in my Geddy and just didn't see/hear it for all the lovely basses out there (of which your beautiful Smiths are definitely some of the finest!)

Mark

[bassjamm]

I know what you mean Mark...although, i reckon i used to get sound i'm after out of the Smith, i never really used it in a band setting, i took it to a few rehearsals i got some sweet sounds out of it, very Janek, i like that...so i'm not sure mate, it is essentially a jazz bass after all my friend, and it's dead easy to play!!!

Ped - That's what i've been doing tonight, i've got it sounding quite honky and sweet, adjusted the amp, added some more mids in the amp, and boosted them on the bass too. But i won't be able to tell until i get it on stage really. As for the fretted Marleaux idea, i don't know man, that's a 2K proposal, i'm not thinking that although, if i had a spare to 2k, i'd be straight down to the Gallery to give that Lull Jazz a good spanking!!!

Steve - Hmm...i just don't seem to cut through, i've tried boosting the mids on the bass on stage, without much affect, but as i've just mentioned, i've adjusted my amp setup a bit, so we'll how how that goes. Not too sure about swopping out cabs etc, i'm happy with the rig. I think that it's just the following...the F Bass is too polite...too well made, not 'enhanced' beyound the realms of reason, making it an awesome studio instrument, it's so crisp, so clean, so clear, it just sings in there. But on stage, it's not rude enough, not aggressive enough. I tried that new Fender Jazz 24 bass thingy, and the sound was massive...the eq and pickups are totally warped to the max and as a result you get that huge sound, the bass just feels crap in comparison to the F Bass and Marleaux.

At the end of the day, i'd be more than happy to use the F Bass live if i was getting on with it...ideally having something like the Smith there to give me some variety too, i dunno'...tough one guys!

[mcgraham]

Dude if you thought it played well before you should try it now, it's positively obscene how effortless it is to play.

Mark

[Kiwi]

The reason I thought of cabs is because its important to make sure you choose amps and cabs that are capable of faithfully belting out the frequency sweet spots on your bass. Not all amps match all basses equally in my experience.

I had the problems you describe with my Eden WT800 head - doesn't mean the head was at fault but with my Smiths, it tended to exaggerate the scooped character where I had problems hearing myself. When I switched to GK I had no more scooped problems so I put it down to my backline. My other basses sound fine too so it wasn't the basses which were the problem. I just hadn't matched the backline to the Smiths very well.

So maybe if you want a ruder sound, go for a ruder amp/cab combo? How about EBS? The valve grind control can sound pretty raw sometimes.

Thanks for the kind words about the Smiths Mcgraham, they're very satisfying to play - I think thats the point I was trying to make! They also sit in the mix of most modern dance/rnb/soul/latin/house songs so nicely - just like you'd expect to hear on a record. However they don't do motown and they don't do disco, so I need other basses for those styles.

[bass_ferret]

Sounds like the old synergy problem, your stage gear works better with one bass than it does with the other. I think the more upmarket the bass the more sensitive they are to this problem, even varying from room to room. Sometimes my full on Spitfire sounds better, sometimes the stripped down P bass one cuts it better.

[mcgraham]

Hmmm....not quite sure how to say this, y'ever get the feeling you're making a huge mistake? I think I may be making one selling this Smith. Despite my ravings about the sound, I've just plugged back in and been sent straight back to how I felt when I first played it at Jammy's. Urgh, I hate this.

Anyway, that isn't the focus of this thread. But Kiwi, thanks for making me pick up my Smith again... and I shake my fist at you at the same time

Mark

[bassjamm]

Ahh...a rig change...that's a frightening thought man!!!

I've never really given the EBS amps a run for their money, i've heard that pretty hardcore though...what amp were you thinking of? I really love the TFunk and Dr.Bass set-up though man, it's a pretty sweet stack, maybe though, just maybe...let me know what you reckon!

Mark...we gotta hook up man, i need to hear that Smith again!!!!

[bassjamm]

By the way...thanks guys, really appreciate all of your help!!!

[Kiwi]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='99241' date='Dec 4 2007, 10:15 PM']Sounds like the old synergy problem, your stage gear works better with one bass than it does with the other. I think the more upmarket the bass the more sensitive they are to this problem, even varying from room to room. Sometimes my full on Spitfire sounds better, sometimes the stripped down P bass one cuts it better.[/quote]
In my experience it happens with many basses that aren't a jazz or precision clone, it's got nothing to do with how upmarket the bass is. Most amps are coloured in some manner and there's probably no better basses than the industry standard Fender J/P for manufacturers to aim for.

[quote name='mcgraham' post='99245' date='Dec 4 2007, 10:18 PM']Anyway, that isn't the focus of this thread. But Kiwi, thanks for making me pick up my Smith again... and I shake my fist at you at the same time [/quote]
You're welcome, I think

[quote name='bassjamm' post='99263' date='Dec 4 2007, 10:35 PM']I've never really given the EBS amps a run for their money, i've heard that pretty hardcore though...what amp were you thinking of? I really love the TFunk and Dr.Bass set-up though man, it's a pretty sweet stack, maybe though, just maybe...let me know what you reckon![/quote]
Well I've heard good things said about the Fafner head, maybe less good things about the TD heads but its all a question of taste. I'd imagine your Thunderfunk amp would be fairly versatile being solid state and help keep the mids. However if your cabs are 2x10, maybe you need to add a 1x15? I used a pair of 2x10's with my Eden and they may have been part of my issue too. I don't think a pair of standard 2x10"s really put out lows very cleanly. Having said that I've been pretty impressed with my Acme cabs which behave as if they're a combination of 10" and 15" cones when it comes to projecting the lows.

[bassjamm]

But the F Bass is essntially a Jazz bass clone man!! What EBS head were you talking about?

[bassjamm]

Not exactly as pretty as my F Bass and Marleaux, but i reckon this bas boy will sound awesome live...

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280177490267&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018"]Ugly Jazz special[/url]

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='bassjamm' post='99204' date='Dec 4 2007, 09:18 PM']Steve - Hmm...i just don't seem to cut through, i've tried boosting the mids on the bass on stage, without much affect, but as i've just mentioned, i've adjusted my amp setup a bit, so we'll how how that goes. Not too sure about swopping out cabs etc, i'm happy with the rig. I think that it's just the following...the F Bass is too polite...too well made, not 'enhanced' beyound the realms of reason, making it an awesome studio instrument, it's so crisp, so clean, so clear, it just sings in there. But on stage, it's not rude enough, not aggressive enough. I tried that new Fender Jazz 24 bass thingy, and the sound was massive...the eq and pickups are totally warped to the max and as a result you get that huge sound, the bass just feels crap in comparison to the F Bass and Marleaux.
.. i dunno'...tough one guys![/quote]
I think that you've said it all above.. i.e., that sometimes, the high-end boutique basses are just too hi-fi, so they sound great solo or in very controlled situations like studios. But in a live context, they seem to disappear..

It's just my personal opinion but, when we talk about certain bass sounds we love on records, I think there's a tendency to make a very simple mistake about what we think we're hearing. And that's because we're forgetting that those particular bass sounds don't sound the same in isolation as they do in amongst the mix...

There's every possibility that if we could hear that particular bass sound we love solo and completely seperate from the rest of the instruments, it would sound quite different to how we perceive it to be when we are hearing it within the mix.

So, what I'm trying to say rather long-windedly, is that it's better to go for the bass that sounds great in amongst all the other instruments in the band and not the one that sounds great solo. And because Fender basses have been played on so many of our favourite records that we reference time and time again, maybe that's the way to go?

[bassjamm]

I think i get what you're saying mate...but i don't know if i agree wholey.

I'm not sure the whole, botique bass arguement is quite true, i think every bass is different, for instance, my Marleaux, also a high end bass, sounds awesome live, so i'm more of the thinking that each bass is different...i've heard some F Basses sounding trully awesome live though!!!

I dunno guys...

[Kiwi]

[quote name='bassjamm' post='99271' date='Dec 4 2007, 10:44 PM']But the F Bass is essntially a Jazz bass clone man!![/quote]
When I played it at the last bass bash, the bass sounded more like a Jaydee to me and I said so at the time.

Maybe I'm not totally clear on what you're looking for. How about trying an EBS Fafner for kicks if you find a shop with one or find someone who owns one. You could also consider an Ampeg SVT, they're fairly grindy sounding. Finally you could always give one of Dave Halls VT1 pedals a shot with a low overdrive setting. When I reviewed one on Bassworld I mentioned it sounded a little bit like a Ampeg in pedal format. I've never tried any of them with an F-bass so please bear that in mind.

I wouldn't normally suggest any of these for funk bass though - are you after some kind of old school, lo-fi sound?

[steve-soar]

Strip it all back to basics. Gallien Kruger, Markbass, all swing with a nice mid personality. It sounds like you need to hear and feel yourself on stage. Also I've just bought a Hartke 4.5 XL cab and it sounds amazing with my ACG Recurve Singlecut 6 string, everywhere I play on the fingerboard sounds loud and clear.
Just a suggestion.

[bassjamm]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='99298' date='Dec 4 2007, 11:46 PM']I wouldn't normally suggest any of these for funk bass though - are you after some kind of old school, lo-fi sound?[/quote]

I'm after that big black thick R'n'B bass sound, like you hear on Jill Scott's 826 live album (i think the dude used a P bass lyte for that, so i heard once), or like Pino on D'angelo's Voodoo, i can obvisouly get that sound in the studio with the F Bas, but live is a little more tricky. It's tough though, because i love the Meshell Ndegeocello kind of sound like she always pulls off so sweetly, just pure jazz bass honk!!!

As for the drive thing...is that essentially adding a small amount of distortion to the sound? I'm not familiar with all this kinda stuff!

I must admit though, when i tried out that Jazz bass 24 in the shop, i went through an Ashdown head of some kind (one of their better ones i think) and an ampeg 6x10...that sounded sweet as...loads of thump!!!!

[Kiwi]

[quote name='bassjamm' post='99480' date='Dec 5 2007, 12:04 PM']I'm after that big black thick R'n'B bass sound, like you hear on Jill Scott's 826 live album (i think the dude used a P bass lyte for that, so i heard once), or like Pino on D'angelo's Voodoo, i can obvisouly get that sound in the studio with the F Bas, but live is a little more tricky. It's tough though, because i love the Meshell Ndegeocello kind of sound like she always pulls off so sweetly, just pure jazz bass honk!!![/quote]
Aaaaaaaaah! OK got you now. Try an Ampeg then but I suspect you're totally right about your F-bass. It's probably a little thin sounding for what you're after.

[quote name='bassjamm' post='99480' date='Dec 5 2007, 12:04 PM']As for the drive thing...is that essentially adding a small amount of distortion to the sound? I'm not familiar with all this kinda stuff![/quote]
Yeah, just a smidgin of a tad of valve drive.

[quote name='bassjamm' post='99480' date='Dec 5 2007, 12:04 PM']I must admit though, when i tried out that Jazz bass 24 in the shop, i went through an Ashdown head of some kind (one of their better ones i think) and an ampeg 6x10...that sounded sweet as...loads of thump!!!![/quote]
Well Ashdown also have a vintagey kind of sound I guess, to my ears its a little too woolly to sound that satisfying though. Did you try that combination of cab and amp with the F-bass at all? It might do the trick.

[TimmyC]

[quote name='bassjamm' post='99480' date='Dec 5 2007, 12:04 PM']I'm after that big black thick R'n'B bass sound, like you hear on Jill Scott's 826 live album (i think the dude used a P bass lyte for that, so i heard once), or like Pino on D'angelo's Voodoo[/quote]

Hey you said it there twice, P-bass! Play a P live and keep the F for the studio?