Is the Bass a Guitar?

[Commando Jack]

Hi there,

So I was over on Fark.com when I came across this video (below for anyone interested) for "famous guitar tunes without a guitar" kind of thing. Now, I know that the guy was aiming for "there is no lead guitarist here so its cool", but the band had a bass, and it sparked a (small) [url="http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=5495932&cpp=1"]debate[/url] on whether a bass was a guitar or not, potentially nullifying the claims of the original link. So I was thinking, what does everyone here think?

To get the ball rolling, my logic is that the bass guitar is a larger and lower tuned version of a guitar, much like a bass clarinet or baritone sax (which I know would be analagous to the baritone guitar, but I'm makin' a point here ), so they are both part of the wider guitar family. Of course this would make a bass a guitar.

However it seems that a few people over on Fark are saying that because it's a double bass lay on its side that it is derived from another family of instruments and is not a guitar. I've enabled voting so everyone can have their say without having to necessarily write a big list of links etc to defend their opinion. The video:

[Adrenochrome]

I've never regarded it as a guitar as it's derived from the orchestral instrument. I do however refer to it as a "bass guitar" to save arguments and confusion with punters, landlords, concert secretaries etc etc.

[OutToPlayJazz]

The electric bass was designed by Leo Fender and introduced in 1951 as the first Precision bass. Leo designed it to be a more portable alternative to the double bass with accurate intonation from the fretted neck. It was loosely based on the Telecaster guitar design. Interestingly, if you look at all of the 50's literature and advertising, there's no mention of the word "guitar" at all. So therefore, the electric bass is descended from the double bass. It just happens to be shaped like an elongated guitar for convenience.

Perhaps we should all call our instruments, "Fender Basses" like Leo did?

[chris_b]

The guy who invented them, Paul Tutmarc, called his an Electronic Bass Fiddle, but Leo Fender developed his from a non double bass perspective and called it a Bass Guitar.

Who cares!

[Stylon Pilson]

I voted for the plonk option. Those who consider the bass to be defined by its role in the band will generally consider it to be more akin to an upright. Those who look at the aesthetics, construction, technique and tone will tend to consider it to be a guitar.

S.P.

[dougal]

Give a guitarist, any guitarist, a bass guitar, and he can play Mustang Sally in five minutes.

Give a guitarist a proper bass and... it wouldn't be pretty.

It's a guitar.

[derrenleepoole]

Interestingly a double bass is named as such, because at the time, the only bass in orchestras was provided by cellos, so the invention of the upright bass 'doubled' the bass available. Does this mean that because the double bass is essentially a larger cello make it a cello?

A loose definition of a guitar is a stringed instrument that is plucked or strummed, as opposed to bowed like a double bass. While you can certainly bow an electric bass, it's not that easy and why would you bother. So while the electric basses roots lie firmly in the problem of amplifying more easily a double basses role, the solution lies in the realms of guitar production. It's therefore a guitar.

Edited July 22, 2010 by derrenleepoole

[Prosebass]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='901671' date='Jul 22 2010, 09:54 AM']The electric bass was designed by Leo Fender and introduced in 1951 as the first Precision bass. Leo designed it to be a more portable alternative to the double bass with accurate intonation from the fretted neck. It was loosely based on the Telecaster guitar design. Interestingly, if you look at all of the 50's literature and advertising, there's no mention of the word "guitar" at all. So therefore, the electric bass is descended from the double bass. It just happens to be shaped like an elongated guitar for convenience.

Perhaps we should all call our instruments, "Fender Basses" like Leo did? [/quote]

But his original patent is headed "Bass Guitar" so I guess we all play bass guitars if they are deemed derivatives of the original . I have no problem calling mine Bass Guitars whether Long Scale , Short Scale , 4 or 6 string or Piccolo .

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='derrenleepoole' post='901705' date='Jul 22 2010, 10:31 AM']Interestingly a double bass is named as such, because at the time, the only bass in orchestras was provided by cellos, so the invention of the upright bass 'doubled' the bass available. Does this mean that because the double bass is essentially a larger cello make it a cello?[/quote]
In construction, the double bass is the bass instrument of the violin family - violin, viola, violincello, and bass viol.

In construction, the bass guitar is the bass instrument of the guitar family - tenor guitar, guitar, baritone guitar, bass guitar.

However, it doesn't really matter.

[Earbrass]

[quote name='dougal' post='901697' date='Jul 22 2010, 10:22 AM']Give a guitarist, any guitarist, a bass guitar, and he can play Mustang Sally in five minutes.

Give a guitarist a proper bass and... it wouldn't be pretty.

It's a guitar.[/quote]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='901729' date='Jul 22 2010, 11:05 AM']In construction, the double bass is the bass instrument of the violin family - violin, viola, violincello, and bass viol.

In construction, the bass guitar is the bass instrument of the guitar family - tenor guitar, guitar, baritone guitar, bass guitar.

However, it doesn't really matter.[/quote]

These.

[Mr. Foxen]

Playing with a pick so guitar.

I think it is pretty much defined by its position in music than its construction. Lemmy plays bass guitar. No-one except bassists knows the name of anyone who plays bass.

[alexclaber]

I believe the double bass was so called it would play a part an octave down from the 'single' bass instrument which was the violoncello's predecessor and part of the viol family, not the violin family (the former tuned in fourths, the latter in fifths). When the viols were superseded it seems the double bass carried on, though it went from three to four strings (and in modern orchestras usually to four strings plus extended E or five strings, so it can go all the way down to C an octave below the cello's lowest note).

I like to think that we bass guitarists, double bassists, keyboard bassists (synths and all that), and tuba and sousaphone players are all bassists in our heart, mind and function. We just happen to play a guitar shaped version that can do guitarry things if we want, just as a great double bassist can go all 'cello-ey with lyrical bowed soloing and great tuba players can blow like a big jazz trumpet with a deeper vibe. Function wins over form, but function is flexible depending on form!

[OldGit]

[quote name='dougal' post='901697' date='Jul 22 2010, 10:22 AM']Give a guitarist, any guitarist, a bass guitar, and he can play Mustang Sally in five minutes.

Give a guitarist a proper bass and... it wouldn't be pretty.

It's a guitar.[/quote]


Actually, having struggled for at least 4 years now to play EUB reasonably, give many bass guitarists a double bass to play Mustang Sally on and it would still be fairly ugly ....

[Rich]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='901671' date='Jul 22 2010, 09:54 AM']The electric bass was designed by Leo Fender and introduced in 1951 as the first Precision bass. Leo designed it to be a more portable alternative to the double bass with accurate intonation from the fretted neck. It was loosely based on the Telecaster guitar design. Interestingly, if you look at all of the 50's literature and advertising, there's no mention of the word "guitar" at all. So therefore, the electric bass is descended from the double bass. It just happens to be shaped like an elongated guitar for convenience.[/quote]
It's guitar shaped, and basically a member of the guitar family, and is therefore a bass guitar. 'Bass' refers to its sonic range, like 'baritone' or 'tenor' or whatever. If an orchestral player asked what you played and you replied "bass", his logical answer would be "Bass what? Clarinet? Sax?".

[quote]Perhaps we should all call our instruments, "Fender Basses" like Leo did? [/quote]

Or "GUITAR", like Leo did?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Rich' post='901827' date='Jul 22 2010, 01:06 PM']It's guitar shaped, and basically a member of the guitar family, and is therefore a bass guitar. 'Bass' refers to its sonic range, like 'baritone' or 'tenor' or whatever. If an orchestral player asked what you played and you replied "bass", his logical answer would be "Bass what? Clarinet? Sax?".



Or "GUITAR", like Leo did?

[/quote]

Fairly typical of a non-bassist to call it a guitar.

[Bankai]

Surely if we're saying the Electric Bass Guitar is a derivitive of the Double Bass (which it is).
Maybe the Guitar is a child of the Chello?

[MIJ-VI]

This is an electric bass guitar.......................................................and this is an electric bass:

[Sarah5string]

I always thought of it as a guitar, until someone said above about the double bass aspect...

now I'm just confused, so I picked plonk

[dlloyd]

Of course it's a guitar.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Sarah5string' post='901864' date='Jul 22 2010, 01:34 PM']I always thought of it as a guitar, until someone said above about the double bass aspect...[/quote]

The double bass is a member of the violin family. The bass guitar isn't.

[Rich]

[quote name='MIJ-VI' post='901856' date='Jul 22 2010, 01:28 PM']This is an electric bass guitar.......................................................[/quote]
But the tuning is exactly the same as a P bass, albeit with two extra top strings. So what makes this a 'guitar', and a Precision not?

[quote]and this is an electric bass:[/quote]

But so is this:



Are you saying there are more similarities between this and a P bass, than between the P bass and the Bass VI?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Rich' post='901874' date='Jul 22 2010, 01:40 PM']Are you saying there are more similarities between this and a P bass, than between the P bass and the Bass VI?[/quote]

In terms of position in music, yes. Although I've not seen a bass VI used much, it has general performed chordal or at least multi string duties.

[geoffbyrne]

At the time Leo invented the Electric Bass in its present form (there were others abroad at the time very much based on the double bass - there was one very much based on a slimmed down DB with an articulaed jack plug which plugged directly into a socket on top of its dedicated bass amp, and was held & played like an upright) there was a request from many big band guitarists who couldn't get any work except for double-bass vacancies. Most guitarists couldn't play the double bass and those of you who have played one will know why.

To this end Leo invented an instrument, *based on the guitar* but with features ie tuning & number of strings of a DB, which utilised the general playing skills of the guitar & to which most guitarists easily adapted.

I personally believe Leo looked upon it as a development of the guitar (because this is what he knew & where he was coming from) and why he called it the bass guitar.

Personally I prefer electric bass, but then why does it matter providing we all know what we mean?

See "How the Fender Bass Changed the World." by Jim Roberts

ISBN-10: 0879306300

ISBN-13: 978-0879306304

Publisher: Backbeat Books (24 May 2001)


G.

[Rich]

OK. What's this?

[chris_b]

An EUB is derived from a double bass, but the Fender Precision was derived from the Fender Broadcaster/Telecaster. One is fretted, the other isn't. One is a guitar the other isn't!!

How on earth can we get 2 pages of disagreement on this??