Is the Bass a Guitar?

[EssentialTension]

And here's another bass guitar patent from 1959:

Edited July 22, 2010 by EssentialTension

[TimR]

The question is "IS a bass a guitar?" so whether it WAS originally designed as a guitar or not is irrelevant. They are sold as Bass Guitars. So no it's not a Guitar, it is a Bass Guitar. An instrument in its own right? I suppose if you were being really picky then it IS a type of Guitar, but it doesn't serve the same function.

Edited July 22, 2010 by TimR

[Stingray5]

In the main, it looks like a guitar, it plays like a guitar, it can even sound like a guitar. It's a (form of) guitar!
We've just got so used to simply calling it a 'bass' as it's the dominant instrument of it's type in popular music.
Many jazz groups, etc., where the bassist plays both, will be credited with Double Bass / Bass Guitar, or something like that. (Stanley Clark, for example)

[Bassassin]

[quote name='allihts' post='902153' date='Jul 22 2010, 05:51 PM']whats wrong with calling it a bass? simples![/quote]
Nothing, all the time you're speaking colloquially with other musicians. As soon as you start needing to be more specific (or you're in the company of an agonisingly pedantic git, like me) the question you may get is "a bass [i]what[/i]?"

"Bass" simply refers to the instrument's tonal range, it tells you nothing about what type of instrument it is or what family of instruments it belongs to. Although it's conceptually a hybridised instrument, all it takes from the acoustic upright double bass is its number of strings and its standard tuning. In every other facet of its design and construction it is a guitar.

I think it's also reasonable to assume that a guitarist would adapt to it considerably more quickly than an upright player, because there is no necessity to learn any new techniques.

Guitarists, the bloody lot of us.

Jon.

[lowdown]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='901735' date='Jul 22 2010, 11:14 AM']Playing with a pick so guitar.[/quote]

So Paco de Lucia needs to use a pick then...?




Garry

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='902200' date='Jul 22 2010, 06:58 PM']Nothing, all the time you're speaking colloquially with other musicians. As soon as you start needing to be more specific (or you're in the company of an agonisingly pedantic git, like me) the question you may get is "a bass [i]what[/i]?"

"Bass" simply refers to the instrument's tonal range, it tells you nothing about what type of instrument it is or what family of instruments it belongs to.[/quote]
+1 on this.

I was chatting to a bloke in a pub and it became apparent that he was a musician. He said he was a baritone. I was slightly confused but it turned out he was a classically trained singer - baritone, not bass, not tenor, etc, but baritone. He, and other singers, use the range of their voices to name what they do, just as we name what we do with our guitars by its range, i.e. bass. Upright players do the same.

[MacDaddy]

in terms of playing style the similarities tend to be more guitary. I would say finger style is closer to classical guitar technique than DB, and picking closer to electric guitar.
Slapping was done on DB before bass, perhaps slappers are the real bassists?

edit. voted don't care.

Edited July 22, 2010 by MacDaddy

[ThomBassmonkey]

I voted that I don't care, because I don't, but IMO it's part of the guitar family, along with ukes etc. Whether or not that would make it a guitar is up to you, but saying "bass guitar" gives people a far more accurate idea of what one is than just "bass".

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='901735' date='Jul 22 2010, 11:14 AM']Playing with a pick so guitar.

I think it is pretty much defined by its position in music than its construction. Lemmy plays bass guitar. No-one except bassists knows the name of anyone who plays bass.[/quote]
i think non bassists would know who Paul Mccartney was. Or Sting for that matter!

[discreet]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' post='902279' date='Jul 22 2010, 08:03 PM']i think non bassists would know who Paul Mccartney was. Or Sting for that matter![/quote]

Yes, but they don't necessarily know they are bass players!

[Lord Sausage]

i think as they are called bass guitars, they are guitars. I don't think it matters what family it derives from. Horse sh*t is different and comes from a different animal than dogshit. At the end of the day it's all sh*t!

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' post='902279' date='Jul 22 2010, 08:03 PM']i think non bassists would know who Paul Mccartney was. Or Sting for that matter![/quote]

MCartney was a guitarist, just the least good one in the Beatles. Sting is known as the singer over anything else. So not the best examples, shoulda gone for Flea.

Does Paco de Lucia play bass?

[lowdown]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='902301' date='Jul 22 2010, 08:17 PM']Does Paco de Lucia play bass?[/quote]

Nah....
But he is a great Flamenco dancer.



Garry

[SteveO]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' post='902279' date='Jul 22 2010, 09:03 PM']i think non bassists would know who Paul Mccartney was. Or Sting for that matter![/quote]

But if you asked them who plays bass in the Beatles or who plays the bass in Sting's band, I recon there's a high probability of getting a "dunno" for an answer


Anyway, back on topic.... Its a guitar. Stop being so self righteously pious. Just because we play it using different techniques, and it has a different register, and it doesn't quite sound the same as a "tenor" guitar, it still is a member of the guitar family. It is not a double bass in the same way that a guitar is not a viola or violin. This topic reminds me of a conversation with a bass trombonist who was adamant that his trombone was nothing like my trombone and should be called something entirely different even though the only real difference was about an extra 7 inches of tubes. Ask yourselves what the real difference is? 2 strings less, a bit longer... thicker strings for the lower notes... all these differences are found [i]within[/i] what we collectively call basses anyway and we are all happy to still call them basses aren't we?

Are there any other differences to a guitar other than the role that the instrument plays in a band? if not then I submit that what we call 'Bass' is merely descriptive of the music that is played on the instrument, not of the instrument itself.


So there.

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='902301' date='Jul 22 2010, 08:17 PM']MCartney was a guitarist, just the least good one in the Beatles. Sting is known as the singer over anything else. So not the best examples, shoulda gone for Flea.

Does Paco de Lucia play bass?[/quote]
Convoluted! These two people play bass and people know who they are!

[discreet]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='902301' date='Jul 22 2010, 08:17 PM']MCartney was a guitarist, just the least good one in the Beatles.[/quote]

McCartney was the best drummer.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='SteveO' post='902313' date='Jul 22 2010, 08:27 PM']It is not a double bass in the same way that a guitar is not a viola or violin.[/quote]

That leaves you open to 'the bass is a guitar, just like the double bass is a violin'.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='902301' date='Jul 22 2010, 08:17 PM']MCartney was a guitarist, just the least good one in the Beatles.[/quote]
I think you'll find that was probably Lennon.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='902340' date='Jul 22 2010, 08:48 PM']That leaves you open to 'the bass is a guitar, just like the double bass is a violin'.[/quote]
Yes, correct, the bass guitar is a bass guitar and the double bass, as it's commonly known, is a bass viol.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='902343' date='Jul 22 2010, 08:51 PM']Yes, correct, the bass guitar is a bass guitar and the double bass, as it's commonly known, is a bass viol.[/quote]

Trying to bend the point there. Take away the 'bass' part and it ceases to apply.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='902362' date='Jul 22 2010, 09:11 PM']Trying to bend the point there. Take away the 'bass' part and it ceases to apply.[/quote]
I think it applies exactly.

[SteveO]

double bass = big violin?

yup. are there any differences other than size of instrument and pitch of note that you can think of?

[Rich]

[quote name='discreet' post='902336' date='Jul 22 2010, 08:45 PM']McCartney was the best drummer.[/quote]
He certainly wasn't the worst

[OutToPlayJazz]

Can you see the word "guitar" uttered in any of these early 50's ads?





And a direct quote... Fender Precision - The best things don't always need big packages
"The electric bass was always designed as a replacement for upright acoustic basses. This late fifties advertisement demonstrates the Fender Precision's portability in relation to an acoustic bass."!

Whatever you want to call the instrument, if you think about it, the electric bass was an inspired design in the early 50's. It was a great and yet simple engineering solution to go from the double bass to basing the initial electric bass design on the Telecaster/Broadcaster shape. And without such an amazing piece of lateral thinking, we wouldn't be sitting here arguing about it right now!

Edited July 22, 2010 by OutToPlayJazz

[thisnameistaken]

Regardless of the words used to sell them in the first place, I think the fact that people like Sid played them with picks tells you all you need to know about the origins of the bass guitar.

Some people play them more like double basses, some people play them more like guitars, it's an interesting instrument. Clearly it was intended to perform the role of the double bass in rock and roll music but I think given that nothing was made obsolete it's clear that what actually happened was that a new instrument was invented.

But either way I would call it a guitar. Even fretless bass I would say is a guitar. I can't play guitar for sh*t, but I would still say my basses are guitars (apart from my double bass of course).