Building Valve Amps

[Wolverinebass]

A friend of mine has done some amp builds and recently completed a Hiwatt or at least something that is based on the original specs. He has now informed me that he is going to build what I'm sure many people regard as one of the best bass valve amps ever made - a Trace Elliot V8.

Now, I'm not too knowledgable about such things as my experience of soldering is ocassionaly fixing a jack socket on a bass and mending scalextric cars when I was younger. I looked at the schematic for it and it just seemed monstrously complicated. Though of course, I didn't really know what most of it meant.

Naturally, I am a bit of a div when it comes to this sort of DIY approach, but my question is firstly didn't the V8 have a circuit board in it? I thought it did, though I'm quite happy to stand corrected.

Secondly, assuming that you can get all the equivalent parts, is it even possible to build something like that?

I'm sure that some of you who have made your own valve amps will be able to shed some light on this, but it's more curiosity than anything else.

[Bigwan]

Everything's possible - certainly this is. Whether it's financially worthwhile depends on what your friend wants to get out of it. Whether the original V8 had a circuit board or not is irrelevant. All a circuit board is is wired connections trapped on a piece of stiff material making connections between multiple points more simple - can be achieved just the same with wires.

It's never going to be identical to a V8, even if the original parts can all be sourced, but if he knows what he's doing it'll probably be pretty close, and with the appropriate attention to detail, could better the original amp. Having built a valve amp myself I'd say a V8 is probably not the most complicated thing in the world (but that's easy for me to say having worked in telecoms, aeronautical and automotive electronics).

[umph]

if hes up to it it should be possible, it's not the most simple amp ever. Do you know what iron he'll be using?

The schematic makes it look alot more complex than it is by being quite hard to follow

[sk8]

[quote name='umph' post='907087' date='Jul 27 2010, 01:56 PM']Do you know what iron he'll be using?[/quote]morphy richards?

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='umph' post='907087' date='Jul 27 2010, 01:56 PM']Do you know what iron he'll be using?[/quote]

Mashie niblick?

S.P.

[Wolverinebass]

I have absolutely no idea what he'll be using I'm afraid. I'm someone who just plays stuff and isn't really that sure how it works. I've only ever used valve amps in rehearsal rooms over the years and I've never owned one.

The Hiwatt copy he did was really, really good and I have played one a few years ago. To me it sounded about the same, but I confess to not being very knowledgable about how they work. I tend to just go on sound really.

Certainly though, my iron is Morphy Richards!!

[henry norton]

In electronic terms valve amps are usually pretty simple - the mistake some people make is thinking building a big valve amp will be cheaper than buying one. The valves alone for a Trace V8 will run into the hundreds and as for the power and output transformers, well, that's probably why umph was asking what he'll be using. That said, I guess the main reason for building a v8 copy is because they're so difficult to get hold of, which is as good a reason as any, and better than most. A fair few people on here would be very interested in the results so post some pics/sounds if and when your mate gets it together.

Mine's a Morphy Richards too! - could they be the steam ironing equivalent to Fender????

[Wolverinebass]

I think that was his thought to be fair. I was under the impression that Trace only made about 200. The last one I saw getting sold was John Entwistle's at Christies about 8 weeks ago and that went for something stupidly cheap like £700.

I doubt he had any thought of doing this to sell stuff, it was mainly just for fun and the satisfaction of being able to.. I know that the Hiwatt copy he did took a fair bit of time but it sounded great when I played it. However, I'll see what he's using and get back though to be fair one is a bit of a luddite when it comes to actually building stuff. On the other hand, my mate doesn't even have a computer, so "in progress" shots may be a bit scarce...

[umph]

[quote name='henry norton' post='907569' date='Jul 27 2010, 08:44 PM']In electronic terms valve amps are usually pretty simple - the mistake some people make is thinking building a big valve amp will be cheaper than buying one. The valves alone for a Trace V8 will run into the hundreds and as for the power and output transformers, well, that's probably why umph was asking what he'll be using. That said, I guess the main reason for building a v8 copy is because they're so difficult to get hold of, which is as good a reason as any, and better than most. A fair few people on here would be very interested in the results so post some pics/sounds if and when your mate gets it together.

Mine's a Morphy Richards too! - could they be the steam ironing equivalent to Fender????[/quote]


haha zing, your right because i was wondering because hammond don't really do anything big enough so he'll have to get custom jazz

[Mr. Foxen]

Mercury magnetics to big trannies, doubt are cheap though.

[Subthumper]

hi, Tube amp doctor do tranformers for just about all the most popular makes of valve amps. But as mentioned they're not cheap. If you wanted to do a copy of a mesa 400 or an SVT you'd be looking at about £200 each (mains and output) and even if you only wanted to do bassman copy they're still knocking for about £100 each. I took the ones for my amp (still in progress) from an old peavey along with the chassis.
I think we only do these things for the sheer hell of it. It's not cheap in time or money but you can get something that you could'nt buy. will be interested to see how your mates turns out.
Cheers Just

[Toddy]

[url="http://www.chambonino.com/"]http://www.chambonino.com/[/url]

Sure that John Chambers must have been mentioned loads of times,,, however if you need any advice he is a great guy,,, and a fascinating website.

[SS73]

It's got to sound better. My biggest problem with the V8 is the fact it's on a PCB, it really does show in the sound and I know that if it was hard wired it would bring the amp to life. Another problem is the rise in treble on switching from channel 1 to 2.
Not sure on the transformers but the rest of the components are just cooking versions.

Written on my Input transformer, Demeter Windings 01245 344544, Pt No 72 TRAN V8-M

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='SS73' post='908934' date='Jul 29 2010, 09:38 AM']It's got to sound better. My biggest problem with the V8 is the fact it's on a PCB, it really does show in the sound and I know that if it was hard wired it would bring the amp to life.[/quote]

Not really convinced by this. Especially since I have handwired PCBs in some of my amps, is it the touching them that helps the tone?

[umph]

[quote name='SS73' post='908934' date='Jul 29 2010, 09:38 AM']It's got to sound better. My biggest problem with the V8 is the fact it's on a PCB, it really does show in the sound and I know that if it was hard wired it would bring the amp to life. Another problem is the rise in treble on switching from channel 1 to 2.
Not sure on the transformers but the rest of the components are just cooking versions.

Written on my Input transformer, Demeter Windings 01245 344544, Pt No 72 TRAN V8-M[/quote]

There is really very little difference between pcb and PTP soundwise, the main differences being the ease of which you can get a silent layout, which a decent PCB will have anyway.

[SS73]

Can't really explain, but it doesn't sound as open as other valve amps I have. The V8 does have a very good grounding layout though and is very quiet.

[Mr. Foxen]

This could turn a lot like the neodymium sound thread. So many other factors going on.

[henry norton]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='909220' date='Jul 29 2010, 02:36 PM']This could turn a lot like the neodymium sound thread. So many other factors going on.[/quote]

It's the same story with woods, finishes, cables, you name it. I do think a hand made, hand wired amp is a nicer amp to own than a mass produced one - just like the instruments we play through them - and knowing you're playing an exquisitely built bass and amp can make you play better. It's a similar story with 'classic' gear, what used to be boringly bog standard off the shelf faire turns into magic sounding rarities, seemingly overnight in some cases, 70s Fenders for instance.

As for the PCB question, imagine how expensive the V8 would have been if it had been wired point to point...

[SS73]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='909220' date='Jul 29 2010, 01:36 PM']This could turn a lot like the neodymium sound thread. So many other factors going on.[/quote]

Don't read into the other factors then, it's only my opinion anyway, but, all I wanted to say was, I think it would be a worthy project and given that with some care and attention to detail a really good amp would result, if not better.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='henry norton' post='909246' date='Jul 29 2010, 01:59 PM']It's the same story with woods, finishes, cables, you name it. I do think a hand made, hand wired amp is a nicer amp to own than a mass produced one - just like the instruments we play through them - and knowing you're playing an exquisitely built bass and amp can make you play better. It's a similar story with 'classic' gear, what used to be boringly bog standard off the shelf faire turns into magic sounding rarities, seemingly overnight in some cases, 70s Fenders for instance.

As for the PCB question, imagine how expensive the V8 would have been if it had been wired point to point... [/quote]

Ha, I've just had a quick check over, with the except of the Ashdown practice amp in the living room, all my amps are hand wired, most on turret board/turret track, (which people seem to label point to point even though it isn't). None were very expensive, and none have managed to turn me into a better player, just a louder one, which is , I feel, at least as important as ability.

[henry norton]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='909347' date='Jul 29 2010, 04:34 PM']Ha, I've just had a quick check over, with the except of the Ashdown practice amp in the living room, all my amps are hand wired, most on turret board/turret track, (which people seem to label point to point even though it isn't). None were very expensive, and none have managed to turn me into a better player, just a louder one, which is , I feel, at least as important as ability.[/quote]

Ahh but that's the point - it's [i]knowing[/i] (or at least believing) you're playing a super-duper hand wired amp that makes a difference!