Embarrassing question re end-of-song-licks

[schmig]

Hi all,

I've been reading topics here for about 6 months, great site...have a question here have always been embarrassed to ask online or in person.

I play with a locally popular blues/rockabilly/country/rock act, the kind that gets people drunk/dancing. While I don't rate myself as a bassist, I've been holding my own. Looking around at the other players around the city, while I can largely match them for your standard dancy/walking blues, there is one respect in which even the most basic bassists seem to trump me.

Some background..last week I injured my wrist and a friend (bassist turned guitarist) subbed for me. I had a chance to watch our own tunes played by someone else, which was excellent. Once again however I noticed my bane.

It is the end of song flourish on the bass. You know what I mean; frequently some noodling around, rooted on the fifth, a growing crescendo, before crashing onto the "one", and the song finishing.

Can anyone please give me some advice on doing this? I am a largely "staccato" player, the best compliment I tend to get is that I "really do my job as a bassist"...underpinning and sticking to the drums. The lead guitarist usually tells me, "I didn't notice you during the gig, you did a great job etc". Which is what I like to hear - this is how I want to play the instrument.

But again, last week I watched this guy produce some nice flourishes at the end of the tunes. How do you folks think about these flourishes?

- Play pentatonic over 2 octaves, starting from the flat 7th below the root, playing through the third a few times before sliding to the 5th etc??

I have a mental block here and perhaps am just too limited as a musician. That said my ear/memory/rhythm are good, you can drop me into a tune and I'll be on it within a bar or two.

I just want that fancy end of tune flourish......

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[endorka]

I hear what you are saying...

But!

I often think it is best to keep song endings simple and concise. I hear a lot of noodling at the end of tunes on jazz gigs, with every musician in their own little sonic place playing their own cadenza, with nobody listening to anyone else. 99.999% of the time, the result is a chaotic racket that goes on far too long.

I assume a similar thing happens on blues gigs.

In my experience, improvised song endings are best executed with one player doing the "lead" part, and the rest coming in with accents/stabs, or even just laying out completely until the final note(s). That one player can be the bass player, but whoever it is, you should have some way of indicating who will be leading the ending, and who will be accompanying. Without doing this, there will be no room for your ending to breathe, and it will likely be buried a sea of noodles.

Of course, if you have time to rehearse, more advanced and coordinated endings can be orchestrated.

Jennifer

[schmig]

Thanks Jennifer, I agree, and we tend to keep it like that...usually a stabbing descent from the flat 7th, before landing on the root, maybe throw a gentle major 3 over the root if I want to create a soft of cheesy-happy-ending feel (I have a crippling zappa obsession).

That said, we tend to finish up with an all-or-nothing tongue-in-cheek blues number, guitarist may be lying on the stage having a pretend spasm etc, I'd like to be able to throw in *something* a bit flambouyant.

Also of course during the "on bass guitar...." part I wouldn't mind one of the aforementioned noodles. Have simultaneously asked over on talkbass about this and folks there are basically saying "play some chromatics and don't think too hard about it". I'm wondering what is the general thought process during these runs - if you know what I mean. Were I asked the same question about my general blues playing I could compile a short essay...at least so I like to think.

Thanks for the reply!

[chris_b]

I always leave the "big ending" to the drummer, and guitarist if you can't stop him!

Too many bands play a good number then spoil it by overplaying the ending.

[GonzoBass]

Ahh yes, the "Everybody Solo" at the end of the song!


I like to hold the root down with 16th notes
(someone's should do it)
which gives the "soloists" something to play over
and then try to match the drummer on his last cliche slowdown roll,
or snare build up,
that usually leads to the final *crash*.

Not real glorious or fancy for us
but it provides support
and that [b]IS[/b] part of our job description.

Another approach,
which I like to save for the "Big Ending" of the final tune of the night,
is to slowly climb the scale one interval at a time up to the octave
and end on the *crash* with the low root.

Just some ideas...

[thepurpleblob]

I used to really sweat over this until I reached a conclusion. Don't!

The most I ever do is slide up the octave on the final root and even that isn't very often. I suppose if you must do what (they tell me) guitarists do - figure out some noodly stuff around a pentatonic scale.

[Doddy]

In all honesty I don't think you really need to worry about this,as it's pretty unimportant.

The problem that bands have during 'Big Rock Show' endings is that everyone tries to play their fancy licks and it ends up
being a mess of everyone doing different things with nothing standing out.
What I like to do is just play the root rapidly,sometimes sliding up to the octave and some times playing a root,fith,octave
'power' chord if it's a trio.
If the guitar is widdling and the drummer is filling around the toms and cymbals,someone needs to keep the final chord
holding....and that's your job.

[wateroftyne]

My approach? I let everyone else do clever things.

Instead I watch for/listen for the kick, and whenever it happens, hit a big fat root at the same time... occasionally adding with the odd flourish.

It really tightens the end up, and sounds much more polished.

Edited July 27, 2010 by wateroftyne

[chardbass]

[quote name='GonzoBass' post='907454' date='Jul 27 2010, 06:53 PM']Ahh yes, the "Everybody Solo" at the end of the song!


I like to hold the root down with 16th notes
(someone's should do it)
which gives the "soloists" something to play over
and then try to match the drummer on his last cliche slowdown roll,
or snare build up,
that usually leads to the final *crash*.[/quote]

Yup +1

[schmig]

Applied the various pieces of advice at last gig, which somebody kindly recorded and passed along. Song endings sounding much better now, basically holding root 16ths and the very odd little bluesy run down from 5th.

Thanks!

[Bilbo]

Song endings (and often beginnings) are often left to chance and, consequently, end up being something of a dog's breakfast. In truth, that lack of clarity over endings is usually the first victim of limited rehearsals, poor writing, overall laziness and that destructive inner voice telling you that 'now is your chance to shine' or 'Bored? I'll show them..... Either way, it makes for shoddy performances. A bit of thought, a decent chart/arrangement, a bit of clarity and a weak ending cn be turned into a showstopper.

[i]I hear a lot of noodling at the end of tunes on jazz gigs, with every musician in their own little sonic place playing their own cadenza, with nobody listening to anyone else. 99.999% of the time, the result is a chaotic racket that goes on far too long. [/i]

Careful, Jennifer! That's my career you are talking about.

[schmig]

We've divvied up our set into so called "blocks" of tunes that run into each other, so our first hour is generally orchestrated very nicely..we can play for 30 minutes before having to address the audience. The second hour on the other hand is a bit more chaotic and open to chance..which can go either way (the wrong way more often I suppose). That's up the band leader...regardless, pedalling 16ths, so far, has had the desired effect for me

[endorka]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='919385' date='Aug 9 2010, 10:56 AM'][i]I hear a lot of noodling at the end of tunes on jazz gigs, with every musician in their own little sonic place playing their own cadenza, with nobody listening to anyone else. 99.999% of the time, the result is a chaotic racket that goes on far too long. [/i]

Careful, Jennifer! That's my career you are talking about.[/quote]

Ah, so you've also noticed, it isn't always just the end of the tunes this pertains to as well?

We must have been on the same gigs or something :-)

Jennifer

[Bilbo]

[quote name='endorka' post='919414' date='Aug 9 2010, 11:16 AM']Ah, so you've also noticed, it isn't always just the end of the tunes this pertains to as well?[/quote]

Its funny you should say that but I have started 'filtering out' some of teh bad gigs/players I have been cursed to play alongside - life's too short for bad jazz..... It has cut my gigging in half but I feel emotionally better for it.

I am off to start a new thread on this subject.

[Marvin]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='919418' date='Aug 9 2010, 11:20 AM']- life's too short for [s]bad[/s] jazz.....[/quote]


Fixed.
It's an open goal and he scores, the crowd go wild.

Sorry Bilbo far too tempting, I did last a whole 9 minutes.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Marvin