StingRay pickup problem (G string)

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='CHRISDABASS' post='910496' date='Jul 30 2010, 06:11 PM']Right quick test for stingray owners (4 & 5 string)

Take a close look at how the g string passes over the pole pieces on the pickup.......

4 string owners should notice that its quite off centre while the other three strings pass over their pole pieces much more accurately!

5 string owners should notice that their g strings / pole pieces line up almost perfectly......(hence lack of g string issue on the 5's)

Surely this has something to do with it??

To me on the fours they should re design the pickup to match the string spacing at the bridge (which is fixed anyway so should be dead easy)

Just my 2p's worth

[/quote]

If you look on here [url="http://www.musicmanbass.org/mycustompage0004.htm"]http://www.musicmanbass.org/mycustompage0004.htm[/url] at the section about bridges you will see some owners have reasembled them to do that (which can be done very easy on some pre's) but it states that this would create a problem as Musicman [b]have already compensated [/b][u][/u]for the offset!.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='CHRISDABASS' post='910502' date='Jul 30 2010, 06:17 PM']Come on guys, get your rays out!![/quote]

[attachment=55381:pair_of_...s__again.jpg]

I love the missing fret marker on the 21st and its a quick pre or EB at a distance confirmation,I wonder why this has not been done on the Classic Rays? A nod to the original maybe,Yet another feature that sways the Classic towards the EB rather than Pre for me.

[Sibob]

[quote name='Bassnut62' post='910908' date='Jul 31 2010, 06:42 AM']There's a thread running in this same forum titled - who's gonna buy this.
Someone posted links to the 3 pre-EB Rays in this thread[/quote]

Cheers for that

Si

[stingrayPete1977]

As you can see from my name the 77' would be the one for me!

[Bassnut62]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='910971' date='Jul 31 2010, 09:51 AM'][attachment=55381:pair_of_...s__again.jpg]

I love the missing fret marker on the 21st and its a quick pre or EB at a distance confirmation,I wonder why this has not been done on the Classic Rays? A nod to the original maybe,Yet another feature that sways the Classic towards the EB rather than Pre for me.[/quote]

never noticed that before or at least never really thought about that

Edited July 31, 2010 by Bassnut62

[stingrayPete1977]

Good anorak trick that one,Good for scanning ebay when the listing just says musicman stingray!

[witterth]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='910552' date='Jul 30 2010, 07:17 PM']No problems here.
[/quote]
that one IS upside down!!
HA HA!!

[Chris2112]

No problems with this one!

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='910552' date='Jul 30 2010, 07:17 PM']No problems here.
[/quote]
Maybe they got it right with the lefties?
My Ray 5 is fine. But it's a 5. And post EB, so it doesn't really count, does it?
Is the issue with the original pick-up OR the alignment? Does a Pick-up swap for an SD or Bart (which have blade pole-pieces IIRC) make any difference?

[stingrayPete1977]

I dont think the problem is in the position above the poles, thats a red herring.If you think of a lead guitarist playing on the front pup on a strat bending at the 20th fret it ends up miles away and if it had a smooth cover like a kent or whatever no would notice also in most cases it seems that cures the issue and internally they would still be aligned the same.

I have just looked and on my USA Strat the strings are miles off centre, right on the edges of the poles.If I bend the B string up it ends above the G strings pole piece so I dont think this is anything to do with it,Again see my comment above with the musicman.org link where people have tried to compensate by altering the bridge.

[obi 2 kenobi]

I agree its not the pole and string alignment. I have 2 rays, a '78 which is aligned dead on the G center but then off on the E, and a 1987 which is other way round.

On both, I have raised the G end of the pick up and also use heaver G string gauge (45) with a 100 on E. Volume balance is perfect.

The problem causing the low G is the large size of the magnets, and in particular their depth. Pre-EBs are generally worse (imo) as the magnets were deeper in the early production years.

[mcnach]

[quote name='obi 2 kenobi' post='911933' date='Aug 1 2010, 02:51 PM']I agree its not the pole and string alignment. I have 2 rays, a '78 which is aligned dead on the G center but then off on the E, and a 1987 which is other way round.

On both, I have raised the G end of the pick up and also use heaver G string gauge (45) with a 100 on E. Volume balance is perfect.

The problem causing the low G is the large size of the magnets, and in particular their depth. Pre-EBs are generally worse (imo) as the magnets were deeper in the early production years.[/quote]


I agree with the alignment being a non-issue. You can get away with a lot of misalignment before you notice.

Stingray pickups have staggered polepieces. The A and D polepieces protrude more than the E and G ones, although the difference varies between pickups.
I understand that this is to try to get an even distance under the strings, following the contour of the fingerboard. However, I feel (I haven't measured it properly) the fingerboard is often flatter than the curve suggested by the pickups. This will result on the E and G string being a bit further than the middle strings. This can actually be ok for the E string, lots of meat there, so it avoids boominess. Maybe. But the G string will certainly sound lower than the others, because it has much less material vibrating over the polepiece.

With a flatter type of pickup, when you angle the pickup so that the G string is closer than the E string, you're compensating for this very nicely. If the polepieces are staggered it's not so easy, because the A and D strings will get much closer no matter what you do. If the E string is a bit farther it won't matter so much because it has a lot of metal.. but the more wimpy G string will suffer.

At least this is the explanation I can come up with and makes sense to me.

If I'm right, using a flatter profile pickup (say a Seymour Duncan SMB-4A) will reduce the weak-G issue when you angle it to be closer to the G string, as you won't be also boosting A and D so much.
Also, if I'm right, using a meatier G string might reduce somewhat the problem.

Anyone willing to test?

[badboy1984]

i only got volume problem with the G string on my Stingray. I've try everything and the result is still same. I just play extra harder on my G string to cure the problem .....

[stingrayPete1977]

Well both my pre and my EB have been fettled,Action set,Intonation set and the pups angled towards the G string plus a little of the excess reduced from the E string I will see how it goes over the next few weeks and report back. To the ear they are both definitley more balanced now but I will wait and see how they sit in the band mix before I get excited plus I dont think either of mine were as bad as some others are suggesting so there could still be an issue for some.

[malcolm.mcintyre]

My pre EB (natural finish/maple neck) has a quiet G, but you just learn to hit it harder, or use the other strings more. Also, as suggested above, use at least a 45 on the G (if you can find one to fit the length).

Edited August 12, 2010 by malcolm.mcintyre

[stingrayPete1977]

That seems at bit of a primative way to me when a few turns of a screw will sort it out,Us 4 string players get enough stick as it is without limiting yourself to three! Im not the best bassist in the world but even I like the use of the whole neck and all the strings.

[Hobbayne]

I didnt realise that this problem existed before I bought my Stingray Although mine is a1996 model not a pre EB. After last nights G string drop in volume I thought it was just me!
Strangely enough other gigs I have played and never had this problem till last night!

Edited April 10, 2011 by Hobbayne

[stingrayPete1977]

Old thread alert! Back in my four string only days. The best method is to raise the G end of the pup as much as you can with it still comfortable to play then lower the E end away to restore the balance, Take a screwdriver to rehersal and do it with a band mix for the best results. I'm yet to see a Ray that can't go from too weak to too strong on the G string so the right position is in there. People don't like to give up a little E string output to achieve the equal balance but they have plenty of output overall to cope with giving a bit away to get it right.

Edited April 10, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[danny-79]

Going by the pictures of my two the string doesn't run totally 100% over the poles on the G String.......... so ?
Ive personally never had a problem experiencing a week output on the treble side, once got it set up with your preferred gage of strings, set the pickups to factory speck to start with then adjust accordingly to your taste if you feel the need.
As Pete says, lower the bass side to match the treble side if its an issue rather than raising the thin side.
Having the pickups set to high is far worse than having them to low,
Ive never or never likely to be not be able to get enough oomph out of a Stingray !





(good enough excuse for a couple of pics ! )

Edited April 10, 2011 by danny-79

[stingrayPete1977]

You always give me butterscotch gas Danny

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='910463' date='Jul 30 2010, 09:31 AM']It is largely in the EQ and all about adjusting the mids to the sweet spot .Im getting there now after nearly a decade playing Rays! ,But its worth it when you get it right.[/quote]
10 years to figure out how to use a single pickup bass? No thanks

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1195163' date='Apr 10 2011, 10:28 PM']10 years to figure out how to use a single pickup bass? No thanks [/quote]
Oh dont worry it only takes about 2 minutes to get a better sound than every other bass the next 10 years is just for pleasure and to improve on it even further

[dlloyd]

The "weak G string" issue is nothing to do with polepiece alignment. It's all in the design of the preamp:

[quote name='Sterling Ball']This trait has been around since the first day of the stingray. Its is NOT a byproduct of wood. It is due to the active preamp used on the bass. The output isnt actually lower the response is thinner sounding or not as fat. IT is one of the things you get used to with a Sting Ray or not. Believe it or not it was a complaint of mine in the beginning when I worked with Leo. The emerging slap and the old school country click players loved it. That thin snappin G sound helped the Sr take off. You can try flats and it will help, but chances are that you will get used to it by playing ...[/quote]

[url="http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-basses/11343-weak-g-string-output.html"]http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-...ing-output.html[/url]

It was something that used to drive me nuts at band rehearsals in a particular studio room and I traced the problem to a mismatch between my Stingray, the eq settings on the bass as I had them set and the Ashdown amps in that room. On Ampeg and Trace amps, I never had the problem to the same degree, particularly when I learned that "turning all the knobs to 10" on an active preamp isn't an intelligent way of using eq.

If you're experiencing problems of this sort, change the eq settings on the bass and amp flat (centre detente on 3 band preamps) and see if it makes the issue go away.

[mcnach]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1195035' date='Apr 10 2011, 08:40 PM']Old thread alert! Back in my four string only days. The best method is to raise the G end of the pup as much as you can with it still comfortable to play then lower the E end away to restore the balance, Take a screwdriver to rehersal and do it with a band mix for the best results. I'm yet to see a Ray that can't go from too weak to too strong on the G string so the right position is in there. People don't like to give up a little E string output to achieve the equal balance but they have plenty of output overall to cope with giving a bit away to get it right. [/quote]

+1

IMHO it really isn't rocket science... unless you try to play the Stingray in a Space Station, in which case it may well be...

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='1195510' date='Apr 11 2011, 10:57 AM']The "weak G string" issue is nothing to do with polepiece alignment. It's all in the design of the preamp:



[url="http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-basses/11343-weak-g-string-output.html"]http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-...ing-output.html[/url]

It was something that used to drive me nuts at band rehearsals in a particular studio room and I traced the problem to a mismatch between my Stingray, the eq settings on the bass as I had them set and the Ashdown amps in that room. On Ampeg and Trace amps, I never had the problem to the same degree, particularly when I learned that "turning all the knobs to 10" on an active preamp isn't an intelligent way of using eq.

If you're experiencing problems of this sort, change the eq settings on the bass and amp flat (centre detente on 3 band preamps) and see if it makes the issue go away.[/quote]
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.4

I'd never experienced it (in fact I used to poo-poo the supposed phenomenon) until I played my 'ray though a headphones amp one time an my G went all shhhhh. It didn't take Heinz Wolf to figure out that if it was always ok through the amp, pc etc. but went quiet through one particular device that it was nothing to do with the bass but how the signal was processed post bass. I now have a special 'ray setting on my PX4D.