Funk

[lonestar]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='910510' date='Jul 30 2010, 06:25 PM']I heard through the grapevine that Bootsy's Funk University is not as good as expected. To be honest, this doesn't surprise me, as I think you can show people how to play a funk groove, but to actually make it sound funky is all about the individual and what their musical upbringing is. In other words, you are what you listen to.

I can't play metal to save my life. Nor reggae, punk, etc.

I honestly don't think think you can 'teach' someone to play funk, unless they have been into it for many years.

I know this is similar to a previous 'can you learn to groove' thread. but I think the Funk Uni might be a flop.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.[/quote]

"I can't play metal to save my life. Nor reggae, punk, etc."

I can play funk and all of the above. just not necessarily in the right song in the right band at the right time, nor always with the right notes in the right order.

I think that one can learn to play funky, in the same way that you can learn to play fast, but getting a good slow groove or being able to come up with a cool funk line is a very rare natural gift akin to perfect pitch or perfect timing for a drummer. It can be attained through listening and training but is anyone actually born funky?

We do Good Times a couple of Jacksons, James Brown, Stevie Wonder and Kool and the Gang songs in my function band.
Love playing them and we do a pretty good job but it's taken a fair amount of work.

Edited July 30, 2010 by lonestar

[bubinga5]

[quote name='Mykesbass' post='910716' date='Jul 30 2010, 09:30 PM']I still think you can teach "feel". Anyone seen Gareth Malone in his various BBC programmes teaching a bunch of no hopers to sing Opera? To me there's as much "feel" in that as there is in Funk. Sure, it's not all in the dots, but I think it is all about inspiring and coaching. It's not that some people were born with it and some not.[/quote]
some people were born with a certain touch...im so sure of this!!

[bubinga5]

i think a great test is show some one a funk bass line..ok they could prob play it note for note, and get the feel bang on...

then there is funk playing where you have to improvise... thats different....

[steve-soar]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='910784' date='Jul 30 2010, 10:41 PM']to clarify...
So I think it's a moot point, because great musicians excel and gobble up all thats in their path... So definitively YES it can be taught because the point at which it is received either on a record, in the street, in a club, in an inspired moment with a teacher or a pal with a good record collection it's all learning. So by definition whatever the method a good musician will "learn" to groove... however he or she be taught.[/quote]Well said.

[OliverBlackman]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='910531' date='Jul 30 2010, 06:57 PM']i agree with this totally Pete..nothing worse than funk too fast!! that and a bassist with a Burberry cap on.. [/quote]

when you say too fast, i think for funk & soul most tower of power is pretty fast but IMO it grooves and sounds amazing

[51m0n]

[quote name='Mykesbass' post='910716' date='Jul 30 2010, 09:30 PM']I still think you can teach "feel". Anyone seen Gareth Malone in his various BBC programmes teaching a bunch of no hopers to sing Opera? To me there's as much "feel" in that as there is in Funk. Sure, it's not all in the dots, but I think it is all about inspiring and coaching. It's not that some people were born with it and some not.[/quote]

Errr those 'no hopers', well I hate to break this to you, but a fair number of the chorus that weren't right in front of the camera (being the poor downtrodden 'no hopers') were kids from great homes who had been through Brighton's Music Service from the age of 5 onwards, I know cos I saw them do it, when I was taking Plux there too....

And funk may be hard to teach, but it can certainly be learnt. The trick is, as with any style, absolute immersion in it. I listened to noting but funk when I was exclusively playing in funk bands, and I was considered none too shabby. I'm not as good at it now, since I dont tend to listen to it nearly as much, but whatever I play it always has an element of funk in it, once you have it it cant be lost either.

And slowing anything down makes it harder IMO. Any idiot can play stuff at warp speed and thus hide the mistakes in a flurry of plop. Thats how I get away with it

[51m0n]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='910765' date='Jul 30 2010, 10:17 PM']i think a great test is show some one a funk bass line..ok they could prob play it note for note, and get the feel bang on...

then there is funk playing where you have to improvise... thats different....[/quote]

How is improvising funk so hard?

Some of the best funky bass is a single note, the intro to Mothership Slinky in B major off BSSM is a funky as hell, and its one note, and a simple rhythm, anyonoe who had spent any real time concentrating on listening to funk could do something similar, and it would be an improvised funky bass line.

Its not some big mystery, really, it just takes listening time to get it into your brain, then any player with any facility can regurgitate that feel.

[ironside1966]

I have never got that business of on the seventh day of the seventh month while Jupiter in line with the planet Mars there is born a golden child with the funk.

Some people have a better aptitude then others for music then others.
The first couple of years of playing I was crap, I loved punk and had no sense of rhythm, eventfully hard work and persistency paid off although I would never be a worlds great I can hold my own as a bass player and have played in many Pro bands covering Rock Jazz Disco Soul and funk as well as recording sessions.

The people to ask are the teachers

Edited July 31, 2010 by ironside1966

[JTUK]

IMV, the best are instinctive and have empathy.

If you have to go to school for it, ...well, I don't think so.
You're playing at it, not playing it.

[endorka]

I'm amazed this discussion is still going on, or indeed that there is any discussion at all...

Someone with a receptive and enquiring mind, a decent ear and a good sense of time will be able to learn the nuances of playing funk in the time honoured way - as mentioned by others in this thread, by total immersion, i.e. listening hard and playing along to a great deal of the good stuff.

"It's not rocket science, but you have to do it right", as someone once said.

End of story.

Jennifer

[witterth]

A really good "name" bass player told me that " the Funk" isnt about "being one the one" ( I Know!!)
but he said, you should,
"lean into it" (man)
and after he told me that, scales just fell away from my eyes!!
I'm not saying I can "do" the funk like this guy can/does,
I'm a mid 40s, gigging,function band player!! so not much funk there!!
I just thought it was a really good teaching point, that I'd share, it helped me...with my "attitude"
do you get me?
Hot Damn!!

[barneyg42]

[witterth]

I dont care what anyone says to the contary,
but "Marky" Mark King.... well...he got da funk!
(he's not all about the triplet/machine gun stuff before you start!)
I love that Guy's Playing
so there!!

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='51m0n' post='910823' date='Jul 30 2010, 11:41 PM']Errr those 'no hopers', well I hate to break this to you, but a fair number of the chorus that weren't right in front of the camera (being the poor downtrodden 'no hopers') were kids from great homes who had been through Brighton's Music Service from the age of 5 onwards, I know cos I saw them do it, when I was taking Plux there too....

And funk may be hard to teach, but it can certainly be learnt. The trick is, as with any style, absolute immersion in it. I listened to noting but funk when I was exclusively playing in funk bands, and I was considered none too shabby. I'm not as good at it now, since I dont tend to listen to it nearly as much, but whatever I play it always has an element of funk in it, once you have it it cant be lost either.

And slowing anything down makes it harder IMO. Any idiot can play stuff at warp speed and thus hide the mistakes in a flurry of plop. Thats how I get away with it [/quote]

OK, but some of them that the programme highlighted were starting from a very low point (BTW I'm not making a comment on their social standing re the great homes comment), and the point was that Malone nurtured a feel/passioin for what they were doing, much like this mystical feel/groove needed to be funky.

[chris_b]

Of course you can teach groove, feel and funk. But the people who are born with grove, feel and funk just do it better!

[bubinga5]

when jimi hendrix plays and when someone playing hendrix, is very different....thats the difference...thats not true funk... but thats enough for me to notice..

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='endorka' post='910935' date='Jul 31 2010, 08:27 AM']I'm amazed this discussion is still going on, or indeed that there is any discussion at all...

Someone with a receptive and enquiring mind, a decent ear and a good sense of time will be able to learn the nuances of playing funk in the time honoured way - as mentioned by others in this thread, by total immersion, i.e. [b]listening hard and playing along to a great deal of the good stuff.
[/b]
"It's not rocket science, but you have to do it right", as someone once said.

End of story.

Jennifer[/quote]

I think it was worth discussing or I wouldn't have posted. Totally agree with the highlighted part. You've just saved me shelling out for Bootsy's Funk University.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Pete Academy

[munkonthehill]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='911642' date='Aug 1 2010, 07:14 AM']I think it was worth discussing or I wouldn't have posted. Totally agree with the highlighted part. You've just saved me shelling out for Bootsy's Funk University. [/quote]

I took lessons from Jen(endorka) for a while (highly recommended if your in the glasgow area),,, her music theory knowledge is only surpased with her 'nagging' of timing. if it wasnt for jen I wouldnt know what timing was never mind how to hold a bass. its amazing how this is something im sure we all dont really think about whilst starting off on bass and without it it leads to a really shoddy sound and a terrible backbone of playing.

I have to say though, once you get some good timing down, listen to what you want to play, keep it simple and enjoy it, then it will all just come to you nicely.

Relax and enjoy it. If some says you sound like sh*t but you like it,,,,well f*** them

Edited August 1, 2010 by munkonthehill

[Pete Academy]

Wearing these always helps:

[url="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/19467.jpg%3Fzm%3D250,250,1,0,0&imgrefurl=http://www.myhalloweencostumes.com/hats-wigs-masks.php%3Fc%3DACCESSORIES%2Band%2BMAKEUP%26sc%3DFinishing%2BTouches&usg=__WYwPLUT2WfeW4euMhdUmKLFb5f4=&h=250&w=250&sz=10&hl=en&start=266&tbnid=1WbmMSJINUolVM:&tbnh=169&tbnw=169&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbootsy%27s%2Bboots%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D865%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C8449&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=473&ei=hG5VTKetD4v00gSC3v2AAw&page=12&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:266&tx=62&ty=62&biw=1280&bih=865"]http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http...280&bih=865[/url]

[munkonthehill]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='911882' date='Aug 1 2010, 01:55 PM']Wearing these always helps:

[url="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/19467.jpg%3Fzm%3D250,250,1,0,0&imgrefurl=http://www.myhalloweencostumes.com/hats-wigs-masks.php%3Fc%3DACCESSORIES%2Band%2BMAKEUP%26sc%3DFinishing%2BTouches&usg=__WYwPLUT2WfeW4euMhdUmKLFb5f4=&h=250&w=250&sz=10&hl=en&start=266&tbnid=1WbmMSJINUolVM:&tbnh=169&tbnw=169&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbootsy%27s%2Bboots%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D865%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C8449&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=473&ei=hG5VTKetD4v00gSC3v2AAw&page=12&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:266&tx=62&ty=62&biw=1280&bih=865"]http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http...280&bih=865[/url][/quote]

hahahahaha

[scalpy]

A few years ago there was a primary school teacher in London I think it was who managed to "prove"that we're all born with perfect pitch, ie the ability to identify a note without using an instrument as reference. Her argument is that as everyone starts happy birthday or lullabies etc in a different key or even in between keys sometimes and we gradually unlearn this ability. I think this is the same with being born funky as well. We all are, but the ability is unlearnt as we are influenced by our musical surroundings and one of the most destructive things anyone can do to their natural musical ability, learn an instrument. At this point technique becomes an obstacle to making music and the emphasis shifts to musical olympics, faster+complicated= impressive. I see this in my job on a daily basis, but have also been in the fortunate position of seeing skilled educators maintain a learner's musicality, or even better in my view hear a learner develop their own potential by themselves. Curiously these learners are normally vocalists or drummers in my experience! Compare the way our culture learns music to stereotypically funky ones and it becomes obvious how we damage our innate musicianship.

As bass players we can be our own worst enemies in this respect as typically an audience does not require a virtuoso performance, just that fat musical anchor that controls the rhythm, harmony and dynamic of a song. We want to prove that there is more to it than one string at a time and can take our eyes off the prize and over complicate things and in learning this habit lose the "funk". Therefore our feel is slowly eroded and we lose base with why we were probably attracted to the instrument in the first place. The key is to keep referencing the greats and to listen for what a punter wants, and our own hips and feet want, not our heads, that throbbing, sweaty, dirty pulse we all know and love.