Help: Setting up a studio

[OliverBlackman]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='916000' date='Aug 5 2010, 02:17 PM']I don't plug my studio PC into the net - just an idea.[/quote]

A technician found that the sources of the viruses on this laptop were from windows wordpad and windows movie maker. They had been embeded before i bought the laptop and from looking on google im not the only person who has suffered because of vista.

[cheddatom]

If you buy a used computer, always format it before using it. A fresh install will never contain viruses.

escholl - I disagree on usability, but that's just an opinion. I guess you're right about sharing/swapping projects in that more people do use Pro Tools.

[51m0n]

Acoustic treatment != Sound proofing != Killing the 'vibe'

The acoustic treatment neednt be expensive (go look on gearslutz.com for advice on home made basstraps and absorbers - you will need to do lots, buit it does not nned to be expensive). There is a real art to it, and it starts with the fabric of the construction. Things have moved on a bit ion 25 years, but you will recognise an awful lot of what is considered the right thing to do. What you dont do is kill the room dead, rather you get rid of flutter reverb, nasty dips and peaks in various frequencies (all room shape/size/construction dependant) and then diffuse and absorb the reflections to give the space a much larger feel to enable real quality recording to be done.

Soundproofing is more laborious but you defintely want good seperation between the tracking space and the control room and the tracking space and the outside world. Again Gearslutz is you friend, masses of knowledge on there, read read read, ask huge amounts of questions, there are some very odd things to take into account with acoustics, it is definitely not all obvious (three layers of wall not necesarily better than two etc etc). Plasterboard and green glue are your friend here!

Mics - they neednt be all expensive, [url="http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Drum_Kit_Mics.html"]Red5[/url] do really good exceedingly cheap drum packages to get you started, [url="http://www.heilsound.com/pro/index.php"]Heil[/url] PR68 kick mike and PR28 snare tom mics are absolutely amazing quality (WAY better than sm57 and sm58 etc), and cost peanuts, [url="http://www.cascademicrophones.com/cascade_FAT%20HEAD.html"]Cascade Fathead[/url] ribbons are lovely (get the lundahl upgrade if you can) as overheads and guitar mics, and there are rafts of decent to good large condensors out there. If you can afford it get one real industry standard large diaphragm condensor for vocals.

Again with the GearSlutz and AVForums! GS has lots of dedicated threads on cheap mics that far outperform their price range.

Rimskidog on this forum has a rather fab pro studio (RedCircle), and is more than happy to give his knowledge and experience to those who need it, top fella, listen to him!

As for software, get Reaper, its very very cheap ($60 if you make less than $10000 a year with it), very full featured, uses significantly less resource than PT and Logic) has better routing than either and should be considered ready for Pro use. Its excellent!

If you dont use the machine its running on to connect to the interweb, downloading warez & pr0n you wont get a virus, simple as. Only put known software on there. The caveat to that is some of the brilliant free VSTs available, but download them onto a different machine and virus check them, then burn a CD - simples! £1000 on a PC these days running Reaper will handle a 32 track mix down for sure. Easily. My 3 year old work Dell PC running Reaper can handle a 24 track mix down with massive VST use for crying out loud!

Get a couple of good quality pres (ART Pro Channel punches above its weight), and bit of hardware compression, and a hardware reverb so you can add a splash opf it to headphone mixes without wasting your CPU power.

Enjoy the whole thing (I like buildiung them as much as using them personally)

20k will buy you a really really nice home studio!

[cd_david]

[url="http://immediateaudio.co.uk/Home.html"]My Company[/url] [url="http://blank-studios.com/studio/"]Recent projects,[/url] If you have plans i could offer any information mate.

Best wishes

Dave

[Ian Savage]

Can I also suggest:

[url="http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=DESIGN"]http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/postlist...mp;Board=DESIGN[/url]

[url="http://www.soundonsound.com/articles/SoundAdvice.php"]http://www.soundonsound.com/articles/SoundAdvice.php[/url]

And if you don't have a copy of Alton Everest's 'Master Handbook of Acoustics' from your previous studies, I strongly suggest getting one.

[charic]

[quote name='Beedster' post='915968' date='Aug 5 2010, 01:54 PM']I think I'm going to start looking at the control room first, specifically recording media and desk. I would really appreciate your thoughts on the following:

Mixing desk
1. how many channels? "min 32 (always have extra!)"
2. new or used? "new"
3. dedicated software model (i.e., designed to work with computer), or generic "Id suggest generic, cheaper to repair etc also will work going forward"
4. best manufacturer/models? "mackie, spirit (i think that was the name) was very good, yamaha digital ones seem to get a good rep"

Computer/software
1. laptop/desktop? "desktop, needs to be expandable"
2. PC or Mac? "Upto you, if you would prefer logic then you need mac. Personally mac with protools & logic but thats just how I would"
3. Software? "Protools if your new, learning curve is very shallow. Logic if your more experienced. I personally avoid cubase & sonar like the plague but again thats just me"

Cheers

C[/quote]

I suggest you worry more about speakers & soundcard than either of the above honestly as you are less likely to want to upgrade. Also how many speakers etc.

[escholl]

You may also want to check out these books, sorry if a few may have been mentioned I haven't checked:


Everest, F. Alton - Sound Studio Construction on a Budget.


Gervais, Rod - Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros.


Newell, Phillip - Recording Studio Design

[Beedster]

Thanks for the above guys

Still doing a lot of reading and talking. I think that I'm going to buy a computer (no interweb access), software, controller and monitors and start running this set up in the spare room at home to familiarise myself with that end of the system, ahead of looking to integrate that into a larger dedicated space. Whilst most people seem to think Macs have the advantage, are there any cons with Macs or reasons I should look at a PC for this application?

C

[JTUK]

You can always come and talk to a mate of mine in Ashford...
He does it to a very good level.

Also, what is your band called?

[ShergoldSnickers]

[quote name='Beedster' post='918702' date='Aug 8 2010, 01:04 PM']Thanks for the above guys

Still doing a lot of reading and talking. I think that I'm going to buy a computer (no interweb access), software, controller and monitors and start running this set up in the spare room at home to familiarise myself with that end of the system, ahead of looking to integrate that into a larger dedicated space. Whilst most people seem to think Macs have the advantage, are there any cons with Macs or reasons I should look at a PC for this application?

C[/quote]
The underlying way that Macs handle audio is particularly good - using a thorough set of 'Core Audio' routines and API's (application programming interfaces):

[url="http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/MusicAudio/Conceptual/CoreAudioOverview/WhatisCoreAudio/WhatisCoreAudio.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40003577-CH3-SW1"]Core Audio explained[/url]. This is from the point of view of those actually writing audio applications, not the end user, but it is informative nontheless even if a bit geeky.

In practice, these core audio functions are handled at an OS level, rather than within the application. This leads to consistency of approach with most Mac DAW and audio applications on the Mac, and frees the developer up to concentrate on what the application does rather than worrying about how it does it.

XP was reasonably OK at handling audio, but Vista and Windows 7 have brought many more of their own core audio functions to the OS level, so that it is more similar to Mac OSX. Apple have had longer to smooth out their technologies, and being a developer of audio and DAW applications themselves brings benefits.

From a technology level I'd say things are a bit more even than they used to be, but that Mac OSX probably has a good edge. Just my opinion. My opinion becomes irrelevant though if you prefer an audio application only available on one platform.

I'd look at the applications first - this may dictate your choice of hardware. You have to be comfortable with your software. I still use GarageBand, as my needs are not overly complex, but I know I have an upgrade path in Logic Express and then Logic if I need to go further. Having room to expand later is a necessary cushion whichever way you go.

[Beedster]

[quote name='JTUK' post='918709' date='Aug 8 2010, 01:19 PM']You can always come and talk to a mate of mine in Ashford...
He does it to a very good level.

Also, what is your band called?[/quote]

Thanks JT, might do that, I do think I need some experience guiding this process!

Band name......? We're going through a metamorphosis at present, I'll keep you posted. Lost a drummer and looking for percussion, singer has dropped guitar so we're looking for either guitar or keyboards. Interesting times and we may come out of the process a very different unit. With any luck anyway!


[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' post='918733' date='Aug 8 2010, 01:43 PM']The underlying way that Macs handle audio is particularly good - using a thorough set of 'Core Audio' routines and API's (application programming interfaces):

[url="http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/MusicAudio/Conceptual/CoreAudioOverview/WhatisCoreAudio/WhatisCoreAudio.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40003577-CH3-SW1"]Core Audio explained[/url]. This is from the point of view of those actually writing audio applications, not the end user, but it is informative nontheless even if a bit geeky.

In practice, these core audio functions are handled at an OS level, rather than within the application. This leads to consistency of approach with most Mac DAW and audio applications on the Mac, and frees the developer up to concentrate on what the application does rather than worrying about how it does it.

XP was reasonably OK at handling audio, but Vista and Windows 7 have brought many more of their own core audio functions to the OS level, so that it is more similar to Mac OSX. Apple have had longer to smooth out their technologies, and being a developer of audio and DAW applications themselves brings benefits.

From a technology level I'd say things are a bit more even than they used to be, but that Mac OSX probably has a good edge. Just my opinion. My opinion becomes irrelevant though if you prefer an audio application only available on one platform.

I'd look at the applications first - this may dictate your choice of hardware. You have to be comfortable with your software. I still use GarageBand, as my needs are not overly complex, but I know I have an upgrade path in Logic Express and then Logic if I need to go further. Having room to expand later is a necessary cushion whichever way you go.[/quote]

Thanks so much SS, it does seem hard to find anyone really keen on PCs for audio!

Cheers

Chris

Edited August 8, 2010 by Beedster

[flyfisher]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='916000' date='Aug 5 2010, 02:17 PM']I don't plug my studio PC into the net - just an idea.[/quote]
That's a pretty good idea. I have a PC dedicated to video editing and I don't connect that to the web either. It helps to keep things 'lean and mean'.

This sounds like a great project though and something I often think about doing one day. I'm fortunate to have suitable outbuildings but they're in poor condition and need re-roofing to keep the rain out, but I'll get around to it one day.

A build diary would be a wonderful resource.

[charic]

[quote name='Beedster' post='918789' date='Aug 8 2010, 03:12 PM']Thanks JT, might do that, I do think I need some experience guiding this process!

Band name......? We're going through a metamorphosis at present, I'll keep you posted. Lost a drummer and looking for percussion, singer has dropped guitar so we're looking for either guitar or keyboards. Interesting times and we may come out of the process a very different unit. With any luck anyway!




Thanks so much SS, it does seem hard to find anyone really keen on PCs for audio!

Cheers

Chris[/quote]

www.dv247.com

you can spec up an audio pc on there. Id still go mac though.

[Beedster]

Thanks Charic, yep, I've been looking there a lot, thinking of running this

[url="http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/m-audio-projectmix-i-o-control-surface-with-motorized-faders--30083"]http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/m-a...d-faders--30083[/url]

into a Mac running protools. Good start?

Chris

[Beedster]

Mmmmm, this is tempting at the price also?

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170521672160&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1154"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...T#ht_500wt_1154[/url]

Used gear strikes me as very risky though?

[dougal]

It's probably a bit noddy given what's already been said in this thread and your potential budget, but I found the following really useful:



I think a mixer is useful in the situation for impromptu recordings: I rather like the look of the projectmix.

My preferred DAW is Sonar, but that's just because I know how to use it. I'm also a big fan of my Adam A5 monitors.

I've had problems with Reaper in the past: but I was trying to get a fully featured DAW in Linux. At some point I keep promising myself to install the ubuntu studio build (http://ubuntustudio.org/) but it's always easier to record ideas on my existing set-up.

Sounds fun. A build diary would be awesome.

[cheddatom]

I like the look of that project mix!! Cool.

[charic]

[quote name='Beedster' post='919267' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:34 AM']Thanks Charic, yep, I've been looking there a lot, thinking of running this

[url="http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/m-audio-projectmix-i-o-control-surface-with-motorized-faders--30083"]http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/m-a...d-faders--30083[/url]

into a Mac running protools. Good start?

Chris[/quote]

You could find 8 channels very limiting. What kind of budget are you looking at for a mixer?

[cheddatom]

[quote name='charic' post='919495' date='Aug 9 2010, 12:29 PM']You could find 8 channels very limiting. What kind of budget are you looking at for a mixer?[/quote]

You can add 8 more with ADAT

[charic]

[quote name='Beedster' post='919279' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:54 AM']Mmmmm, this is tempting at the price also?

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170521672160&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1154"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...T#ht_500wt_1154[/url]

Used gear strikes me as very risky though?[/quote]

I have the HS50m speakers myself. Well worth a look on a budget.

But Digital Village are very good with customer service and Warrantys tend to last a long time (my last piece of kit has 4 years warranty) which is worth a lot of money to a studio situation.

Also the sale in general there looks a little messy I would atleast tidy up for a picture.

[charic]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='919503' date='Aug 9 2010, 12:32 PM']You can add 8 more with ADAT[/quote]

Its more hassle though (and money). Personally I would have a 16 channel mixer, without automation. I love the look of the mackie onyx series but im unsure of the budget.

This
[url="http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/mackie-1604-vlz3-series-compact-mixer--38504"]Mackie 1604[/url]
or
[url="http://www.dv247.com/mixers/mackie-onyx-1640i--67613"]Mackie 1640 onyx[/url]
would be my choice without further research.

[JakeBrownBass]

Have you thought about the M-Audio Lightbridge??

You can make a great expandable set up using ADAT.

[url="http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html"]http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProF...ightbridge.html[/url]

Then using up to 4 presonus preamps for 32 channels of recording.

[url="http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=48"]http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=48[/url]

Then getting a dedicated controller as apose to a controller/interface mix. For example, Euphonix MC Control.

[url="http://www.euphonix.com/artist/products/mc_control/"]http://www.euphonix.com/artist/products/mc_control/[/url]

My uncle recently got one of these and they are so good. So easy to use and makes everything really simple, especially with the touch screen.

So to get a 32 channel recording set up, its comes to about £2700. Which is alot of gear for the money

EDIT: Forgot to say, the control surface is for MAC only afaik.

Edited August 9, 2010 by jake_tenfloors

[Ian Savage]

[quote name='Beedster' post='919267' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:34 AM']Thanks Charic, yep, I've been looking there a lot, thinking of running this

[url="http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/m-audio-projectmix-i-o-control-surface-with-motorized-faders--30083"]http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/m-a...d-faders--30083[/url]

into a Mac running protools. Good start?

Chris[/quote]

That looks nice, I love the automation and motorised faders on my Yamaha 01X - not only because they're sexy and impress anyone who comes 'round to play but because they make re-visiting old mixes and creating rough mixes on the fly SO much easier than pissing about with a mouse.

As the possible eight-channel limitation has been mentioned, these are very well regarded as an ADAT front-end (about the only bit of Behringer gear I'd recommend for 'pro' use, to be honest ) - [url="http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/behringer-ada8000-ultragain-8-channel-a-d-and-d-a-converter--18218"]http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/behr...onverter--18218[/url]

[ironside1966]

Why pay good money for a desk for the price of a good desk you could get some great preamps.

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='Ian Savage' post='919625' date='Aug 9 2010, 01:57 PM']As the possible eight-channel limitation has been mentioned, these are very well regarded as an ADAT front-end (about the only bit of Behringer gear I'd recommend for 'pro' use, to be honest ) - [url="http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/behringer-ada8000-ultragain-8-channel-a-d-and-d-a-converter--18218"]http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/behr...onverter--18218[/url][/quote]

Those are good but the built in preamp on the channels aren't the best.