Help: Setting up a studio

[Beedster]

[quote name='clauster' post='922600' date='Aug 12 2010, 12:26 PM']If the guys in your band are using Logic, I'd consider going Logic too just for compatibility's sake.

EG - Our singer has a nice Logic set-up. I don't have all the i/o and mixing facilities, but I do have the ability to bring projects home with me once the guide tracks and drums are done and work on the bass tracks at my leisure before taking it back to the singer.

Edit - yes, it's not necessary, I could just bring home a stereo mix and record the Bass as a wav in any audio rcorder. But its nice to be able to boost the drums I want to hear [/quote]


[quote name='BigRedX' post='922627' date='Aug 12 2010, 12:44 PM']I hadn't noticed that you might need to share files with other band members when working on recording projects. Yes it is possible to swap projects between different software systems but it's extra complication that gets in the way of the important thing which is making and recording music.

When bought my first system I would have ended up with Performer which was the one I liked best from a features/usability PoV. However the other main songwriter in the band I was in at the time was a Logic user so it made far more sense to have the same software as him.

However if you do go for compatibility make sure that you're both on the same version of whatever software that you're using and that you'll only upgrade if you both (all?) do it at the same time.[/quote]

Thanks guys

I doubt we'll be sharing files, in fact, as a band we're all about recording as live as possible. I mentioned their use of Logic as it's a package they're used to (largely for the recording of pretty crude demos of new songs, as opposed to more coherent recordings), and, working as a band, I think it's gonna be important for all of us to be competent with whatever package I choose. They seem to be happy to move to Protools, but it would make my job/learning curve easier if I opted for the system they're already competent with, which is a factor I'm considering also.

C

[Beedster]

[quote name='clauster' post='922609' date='Aug 12 2010, 12:32 PM']Regarding the point of why buy protools (or any DAW) and use an external mixer for mixing when you could use the built in automation - it's giving the computer less to do. So better latency, more tracks and more stability.[/quote]

Good point, I hadn't thought of that

C

[clauster]

If you're not bothered about file sharing, then go Protools - you'll be up and running a lot quicker than you will be with Logic. Plus, should you win the lottery, you'll be forwards compatible with a full Protools HD system

[Beedster]

[quote name='clauster' post='922691' date='Aug 12 2010, 01:23 PM']Plus, should you win the lottery, you'll be forwards compatible with a full Protools HD system [/quote]

That's kinda my thinking at present

[Beedster]

[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' post='921601' date='Aug 11 2010, 01:50 PM']The 27" screen is absolutely gorgeous and on its own would cost a small fortune. You are going to be doing a lot of squinting at this screen - having a good one really makes a huge difference.[/quote]

OMG, I just went down to check the model in question at the local store and it's HUGE, to my mind, simply too big to operate in a small control room (it's considerably bigger than my TV!). If I had to sit anywhere near it I'd get vertigo! Bummer that it seems that if you want Quad Core in an iMac you have to have a 27" screen. As a result, I think it makes most sense at this stage to opt for the 21" screen, and seeing as both are the same processor, I'm tempted the the smaller and cheaper [url="http://www.dv247.com/configure/22"]http://www.dv247.com/configure/22[/url] than the more expensive [url="http://www.dv247.com/configure/18"]http://www.dv247.com/configure/18[/url], unless that is you guys think the better graphics or extra hard disk space (500G v 1T) are worth the extra few hundred quid?

C

[clauster]

I'd go for the better graphics and get a fast external HDD for the audio.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='clauster' post='922609' date='Aug 12 2010, 12:32 PM']Regarding the point of why buy protools (or any DAW) and use an external mixer for mixing when you could use the built in automation - it's giving the computer less to do. So better latency, more tracks and more stability.[/quote]

Yeh but you're losing the ability to automate.

Horses for courses innit - my 5 year old PC manages songs with 100+ tracks and 50+ VSTs and automation. It does start to struggle at the top end of what I do to be fair, but it's 5 years old.

[clauster]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='922867' date='Aug 12 2010, 03:41 PM']Yeh but you're losing the ability to automate.[/quote]

No you're not, you're losing the control surface for automation. You can still do automation via the mouse.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='clauster' post='922914' date='Aug 12 2010, 04:38 PM']No you're not, you're losing the control surface for automation. You can still do automation via the mouse.[/quote]

Yeh, I hadn't really thought about it as you'd be messing with your physical faders for mixing. I'd find it weird to mix on a seperate set of faders to my automated ones, but to be fair it would be fine - drawing in automation where required, but getting your overall mix right on the desk.

[Beedster]

OK, I'm pretty much there with:


Mackie 1640i,

[url="http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/mackie-onyx-1640i-and-avid-m-powered-pro-tools--74872"]http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/mac...ro-tools--74872[/url]


iMac 21.5" 3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo ATI (should I order external HD or extra RAM with this?)

[url="http://www.dv247.com/configure/18"]http://www.dv247.com/configure/18[/url]


and Pro Tools


Any last observations before I pull the trigger guys.......?

Chris

Edited August 13, 2010 by Beedster

[clauster]

You've got the heart of a nice studio there Chris.

More memory is always handy in any computer. But I would give higher priority to a fast Firewire 800 External drive for audio. But, you'll probably be okay without either until you're recording the full band live.

What's next? Monitors?

[charic]

I'm jealous

[Beedster]

[quote name='clauster' post='923541' date='Aug 13 2010, 09:52 AM']You've got the heart of a nice studio there Chris.

More memory is always handy in any computer. But I would give higher priority to a fast Firewire 800 External drive for audio. But, you'll probably be okay without either until you're recording the full band live.

What's next? Monitors?[/quote]

Thanks mate, good thinking re memory at this stage. Re next, yes, I'll be looking at monitors, although for the time being I'm going to work from some pretty good hi-fi units I have until I've done a bit of homework on what's out there to do the job properly. Thanks for your help Clauster


[quote name='charic' post='923544' date='Aug 13 2010, 09:53 AM']I'm jealous [/quote]

I'm excited! Again, thanks for your help Charic

C

[Beedster]

Damn, I've just logged on to DV247 and seen these monitors at a stupid price:

[url="http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/m-audio-cx8-studiophile-active-studio-monitor--63497"]http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/m-au...-monitor--63497[/url]

Mmmmmm......

[ShergoldSnickers]

[quote name='Beedster' post='923512' date='Aug 13 2010, 09:22 AM'](should I order external HD or extra RAM with this?)

Chris[/quote]
An external HD for backup would be a really good idea. Macs come already loaded with Time Machine, an automated backup system that is simple to use and reliable. Last thing you need to do is lose all your precious work

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Beedster' post='923551' date='Aug 13 2010, 09:59 AM']Damn, I've just logged on to DV247 and seen these monitors at a stupid price:

[url="http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/m-audio-cx8-studiophile-active-studio-monitor--63497"]http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/m-au...-monitor--63497[/url]

Mmmmmm......[/quote]

It's worth getting a decent set of monitors because otherwise you'll only end up wanting a better pair later.

Also i think 4GB of ram should be fine, get an external hard disk.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Beedster' post='923512' date='Aug 13 2010, 09:22 AM']OK, I'm pretty much there with:


Mackie 1640i,

[url="http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/mackie-onyx-1640i-and-avid-m-powered-pro-tools--74872"]http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/mac...ro-tools--74872[/url][/quote]

A big +1 on that, if i had £1000 to spend on improving my recording setup i would get myself one of these.

[charic]

[quote name='Beedster' post='923551' date='Aug 13 2010, 09:59 AM']Damn, I've just logged on to DV247 and seen these monitors at a stupid price:

[url="http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/m-audio-cx8-studiophile-active-studio-monitor--63497"]http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/m-au...-monitor--63497[/url]

Mmmmmm......[/quote]

The look good, but the truth is in the listening. Also it depends what you like. Some engineers prefer using a speaker which flatters the music and some prefer (like me) a speaker which shows up every wart and wrinkle.

I love my monitors Yamaha HS50m's which do exactly the latter. They also do a HS80m which got great reviews too. Best way to choose monitors is select 2 or 3 sets of speakers that your interested in. Take in 2 songs which you know inside out (I chose back in black and some dream theater) and abc them. Make sure the styles vary enough. Digital Village usually have a room setup for doing exactly this

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='charic' post='923579' date='Aug 13 2010, 10:33 AM']The look good, but the truth is in the listening. Also it depends what you like. Some engineers prefer using a speaker which flatters the music and some prefer (like me) a speaker which shows up every wart and wrinkle.

I love my monitors Yamaha HS50m's which do exactly the latter. They also do a HS80m which got great reviews too. Best way to choose monitors is select 2 or 3 sets of speakers that your interested in. Take in 2 songs which you know inside out (I chose back in black and some dream theater) and abc them. Make sure the styles vary enough. Digital Village usually have a room setup for doing exactly this [/quote]

+1 i was going to say you've got to give them a listen really.

[Beedster]

[quote name='charic' post='923579' date='Aug 13 2010, 10:33 AM']The look good, but the truth is in the listening. Also it depends what you like. Some engineers prefer using a speaker which flatters the music and some prefer (like me) a speaker which shows up every wart and wrinkle.

I love my monitors Yamaha HS50m's which do exactly the latter. They also do a HS80m which got great reviews too. Best way to choose monitors is select 2 or 3 sets of speakers that your interested in. Take in 2 songs which you know inside out (I chose back in black and some dream theater) and abc them. Make sure the styles vary enough. Digital Village usually have a room setup for doing exactly this [/quote]


[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='923589' date='Aug 13 2010, 10:39 AM']+1 i was going to say you've got to give them a listen really.[/quote]

Thanks guys
Interestingly - and perhaps stupidly - I was considering two pairs of monitors, one that flatters the music and one that is perhaps more similar in response to the type of media on which people will be listening to the music. The problem we had with our last session was that a mix that worked in the control room was far too 'obvious' a on car stereo, hifi and mp3. In fact, we ended up using the rough mixes which sounded crude through monitors but sounded far more organic through real-world media. OK, I recognise that what we're really talking about here is skilled engineering and production and not monitor technology, but I'm certainly going to trial running a cheapish hi-fi alongside the monitors for a while to give me some idea of where each stands.
But back in the real world! You're bang on, don't buy without listening, no matter how good a deal it seems
Cheers
Chris

Edited August 13, 2010 by Beedster

[clauster]

Nothing wrong with running two sets of monitors - one for "proper" monitoring and the other to see what the mix sounds like through "real world" amps and speakers.

[BigRedX]

Buy your extra RAM from [url="http://www.crucial.com/uk/"]Crucial[/url] unless DV offer you a very good deal on it.

An external Hard Drive that connects via FireWire (don't use USB for multi-track audio) for your audio files ONLY is an excellent idea - you'll get much better performance. However TimeMachine will not back up data on external hard drives so you'll need to look at alternative backup strategies and TBH I'd be vary about letting TM run while you're actually recording from a performance PoV.

Edited August 13, 2010 by BigRedX

[charic]

Two sets of monitors is pretty much the usual anyway tbh I was just thinking of your budget. If you already have some flattering speakers Id suggest getting something a bit more "revealing" for engineering.

Other industry standard is a quick mixdown then go for a drive in a (usually old) car while listening to the mix!!

[Beedster]

[quote name='charic' post='923647' date='Aug 13 2010, 11:32 AM']Two sets of monitors is pretty much the usual anyway tbh I was just thinking of your budget. If you already have some flattering speakers Id suggest getting something a bit more "revealing" for engineering.

Other industry standard is a quick mixdown then go for a drive in a (usually old) car while listening to the mix!![/quote]

LOL, both things we do (two sets of speakers and the car test). Good to know that without realising it was standard practice, we're doing things right!

Cheers

C

[ShergoldSnickers]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='923633' date='Aug 13 2010, 11:23 AM']Buy your extra RAM from [url="http://www.crucial.com/uk/"]Crucial[/url] unless DV offer you a very good deal on it.

An external Hard Drive that connects via FireWire (don't use USB for multi-track audio) for your audio files ONLY is an excellent idea - you'll get much better performance. However TimeMachine will not back up data on external hard drives so you'll need to look at alternative backup strategies and TBH I'd be vary about letting TM run while you're actually recording from a performance PoV.[/quote]
All excellent points - Crucial are the place for RAM, and if you use the external for working audio file storage, then they won't get backed up by Time Machine - quite right. Maybe a manual copy over of audio files to the internal HD once a day, or using a folder syncing application set to run outside recording hours may be the way to go.