Truss rod maxx'd out?

[andyonbass]

Ever tried to adjust your trussrod and found it to be tightened up to the maximum with no adjustment left? I just did, so I thought I would post my attempt to get round it.
First thing I did was take the strings off, and then removed the neck, which is not strictly necessary, but I find it easier to handle. I then gingerly unscrewed the trussrod nut and removed it, exposing the threaded end of the rod (sorry for the poor quality, havent figured out how to work the camera properly yet!)
[attachment=55799:S6300075.JPG]

Here's the trussrod nut
[attachment=55800:S6300077.JPG]

Now I need to find a spacer, after a rummage through my odds'n'sods drawer all I could find was this
[attachment=55801:S6300082.JPG]

Its gotta fit down the trussrod hole and over the threaded end of the rod so the hole in the middle has to be bigger than the threaded end and I'm gonna have to round the corners off a bit to fit
[attachment=55802:S6300083.JPG]

That was too much like hard work, so I devised a cunning plan, I screwed it on to a bolt, stuck it in a drill clamped to my workmate and held the file on it while it rotated.
[attachment=55803:S6300088.JPG] [attachment=55804:S6300087.JPG]




Which soon whittled it down to a similar diameter to the nut, enabling it to fit down the hole and over the rod
[attachment=55805:S6300089.JPG] [attachment=55810:S6300090.JPG]

You can just see it in situ, over the trussrod, with some of the threads still exposed
[attachment=55806:S6300096.JPG]

Trussrod nut screwed back on, after a smidgen of vaseline applied to the threads
[attachment=55807:S6300101.JPG]

Back on with the neck,
[attachment=55808:S6300103.JPG]
string up to tension and check relief. After loosening the tension and adjusting the trussrod a few times I now have a nice low action and plenty of adjustment left. Job done!
[attachment=55809:S6300106.JPG]

Edited August 4, 2010 by andyonbass

[johnnylager]

Top job Andy, this needs sticky'ed.

[Beedster]

Interesting, glad it worked for you. Do you think it's a safe strategy, it kinda pre-supposes that the neck can be infinitely tightened? I'd be interested to hear what luthiers think?

Cheers

Chris

[andyonbass]

I think over time, the pressure of the truss rod nut against the wood compresses it, requiring additional turns to achieve the same level of relief, and its also likely the wood dries out and shrinks a bit. The method above enables me to achieve a few more mm of threads. On a decent neck its probably not an issue.



[quote name='Beedster' post='915656' date='Aug 5 2010, 09:34 AM']Interesting, glad it worked for you. Do you think it's a safe strategy, it kinda pre-supposes that the neck can be infinitely tightened? I'd be interested to hear what luthiers think?
Cheers
Chris[/quote]

[Alien]

[quote name='andyonbass' post='915681' date='Aug 5 2010, 10:03 AM']I think over time, the pressure of the truss rod nut against the wood compresses it, requiring additional turns to achieve the same level of relief[/quote]

That's it, in a nutshell. Putting a couple of washers under a truss rod nut is a pretty common fix - I've done it myself on a few occasions.

A

[Beedster]

[quote name='andyonbass' post='915681' date='Aug 5 2010, 10:03 AM']I think over time, the pressure of the truss rod nut against the wood compresses it, requiring additional turns to achieve the same level of relief, and its also likely the wood dries out and shrinks a bit. The method above enables me to achieve a few more mm of threads. On a decent neck its probably not an issue.[/quote]

Ah, OK, that makes sense, but, if you'll excuse my ignorance, it still strikes me as a little risky. Is there not the possibility that a neck will get to a certain point at which only working the wood will do the job, i.e., that by increasing the tension on the rod as you've done you run the risk of pulling it out of its housing?

C

[andyonbass]

[quote name='Beedster' post='915981' date='Aug 5 2010, 02:05 PM']Ah, OK, that makes sense, but, if you'll excuse my ignorance, it still strikes me as a little risky. Is there not the possibility that a neck will get to a certain point at which only working the wood will do the job, i.e., that by increasing the tension on the rod as you've done you run the risk of pulling it out of its housing?

C[/quote]


Possibly, in which case you'll end up with a neck that cant be adjusted......Which is what you've got anyway!

[StevieD_FenderP2009]

I actually think I love you... Just took delivery of an 87 Fender american P with a maxed out truss rod and i didn't know what to do
You've saved me a tonne of money! thank you!

[Stuee]

Funny, I was just looking into this today (I've got an '81 Tokai Hard Puncher with exactly this problem) & came across this: [url="http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for_Truss_rods/Truss_Rod_Rescue_Kit.html"]Stew Mac Truss Rod Saver Kit[/url]

Similar technique (watch the video) except the tool allows you to cut into the neck itself so as to extend the thread further down the truss rod - great if the rod is broken or the thread stripped - & comes with a die to cut the thread & spacers to finish the job.

Looks brilliant, but at £145 it ain't cheap! OK for a luthier though I guess.

[cd_david]

Just incase you have an old bike chain lying around the roller element of a segment makes the prefect washer, they fit over truss rods and are nice and wide.

[andyonbass]

[quote name='cd_david' post='1151133' date='Mar 6 2011, 08:10 AM']Just incase you have an old bike chain lying around the roller element of a segment makes the prefect washer, they fit over truss rods and are nice and wide.[/quote]


Nice one! Looks like my son will be doing his paper round on foot next time the truss rod needs sorting

[mckendrick]

Top thread.

Cheers, Andy.

[Rick's Fine '52]

Great thread, and info.

The pics have gone though, which would help me, is there a way of getting them back?

Also, when initially unscrewing the truss rod nut, is there not a danger (If the nut is afixed tightly to the rod), that the whole thing can become detached from the holding section at the headstock end (Where it's screwed into, and, presumably screwed in the same direction!, so when you turn the nut anti-clockwise, the whole thing becomes detached), in which case you're buggered???

Any comment would be greatly appreciated.

Rick

[Billy Apple]

Aye, can you magic the pics back please?

[andyonbass]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1333659864' post='1605113']
Great thread, and info.
The pics have gone though, which would help me, is there a way of getting them back?
Also, when initially unscrewing the truss rod nut, is there not a danger (If the nut is afixed tightly to the rod), that the whole thing can become detached from the holding section at the headstock end (Where it's screwed into, and, presumably screwed in the same direction!, so when you turn the nut anti-clockwise, the whole thing becomes detached), in which case you're buggered???
Any comment would be greatly appreciated.
Rick
[/quote]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1356297028' post='1909001']
Aye, can you magic the pics back please?
[/quote]

I think the photos got lost when I had a PC virus issue a while back, and like a fool I hadn't done a back up, but I have a spare neck around somewhere, so I will endeavour to re-create the pics when I get a minute.

Rick, I would always undo the truss rod nut with a gentle back and forth motion initially if there is any resistance, I've been lucky so far and not had the problem you describe. Dont forget a little copper ease or vaseline on the threads on re-assembly, which should help prevent it happening in the future

[ezbass]

I had a Fender Roscoe Beck lV that even tightened up all the way up had relief you could almost stick a finger under. I reckon it was down to a generic 21 fret rod being stuck in a 22 fret neck. I made a spacer and tightened it all back up again, sorted.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='andyonbass' timestamp='1356352002' post='1909389']
I think the photos got lost when I had a PC virus issue a while back, and like a fool I hadn't done a back up, but I have a spare neck around somewhere, so I will endeavour to re-create the pics when I get a minute.

Rick, I would always undo the truss rod nut with a gentle back and forth motion initially if there is any resistance, I've been lucky so far and not had the problem you describe. Dont forget a little copper ease or vaseline on the threads on re-assembly, which should help prevent it happening in the future
[/quote]

It was last April when i was contemplating buying a truss rod max'd '65 Jazz. I decided against it, as I thought the cons far outweighed the pro's, and it wasnt overly cheap either. Thanks for the response though, and Merry Christmas!

[paul_5]

I've just done the 'washer' trick to the rod of my bitsa P bass. Seems to have done the trick so far...

[Chambo]

Where did you get the washers?

[paul_5]

I, erm, fashined them out of some old nuts that had the right inside diameter. I held them in a pair of pliers and filed the corners off. By hand. Worked a treat.

[stjohn]

What I have done in the past was take the neck off, clamp to a cricket bat, string down the headstock so it's bent back somewhat (after loosening the truss rod) then gradually heat with a heat gun. If you're careful you don't mess up the lacquer- 4 years later it hasn't moved and plays as mint as it's going to!!

[Chambo]

Good idea

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1380804269' post='2230786']
I, erm, fashined them out of some old nuts that had the right inside diameter. I held them in a pair of pliers and filed the corners off. By hand. Worked a treat.
[/quote]

[AgentCooper]

I have a 32 year old Tokai in need of this rescue. Will post pics if successful. If fail I'll post pics of me crying !

[neepheid]

Yup, performed the washer trick on a Yamaha BB450 which I resurrected/restored. Must have been a couple of years now with no ill effects. I think I'll play it at band rehearsal tonight

Edited February 11, 2015 by neepheid

[AgentCooper]

Nope
The Truss Nut came off fine, there's 5mm of thread inside unused so the Rod is not getting pulled through the anchor plate. There is a metal face (already a washer?) already in there and wonder if that is catching on the Rod threads holding it solid and unable to move forward or backward... oh and it is solid !
Hmm !!!