Public Liability Insurance

[thisnameistaken]

My band is booked to play a festival where we are required to have PLI cover, and it looks quite expensive. Does anyone have any recommendations?

[Delberthot]

Join the musician's union and you get it with membership

as long as you're earning less than £16000 per year from music it only comes to £13 per month plus all the other benefits you get as well.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Delberthot

[thisnameistaken]

I don't make any money from music at all but I suppose £13 a month for MU membership is probably about the same as just buying insurance.

We only need it for 1 month anyway. Cheers I will consider that.

[TimR]

Watch that the insurance covers all of the band and not just the person named in the insurance.

[Al Heeley]

We had to buy cover for a wedding gig in a posh hotel, as part of the agreement, cost us £120 one-off for 12 months cover (no choice) and another £60 for all the gear to be PAT-tested, plus we had 2 hour drive to get there.
Nice place though, gig went well, we all made about 70p. Gotta love wedding gigs

[thisnameistaken]

Hmm. This is starting to sound like a proper arse.

PAT testing isn't an issue though, my mate is a chief sparky at a local theatre so he can do that for us.

[casapete]

I got mine through www.musicguard.co.uk
Got my Stingray insured for £1200 and included was £1m public liability for a year - had to have it for a recent gig etc.
Dont know if thats the best deal around, but worth a look, cheers.

[Pete Academy]

I agree PLI is a pain. When I worked for an agency, most of the hotel venues required it.

MU is an option, as you also get £1000 worth of gear insurance thrown in.

[TimR]

I was insured with music guard. BUT again the insurance is only for the person with the cover NOT the band so each member needs their own insurance.

If you just want liabilty insurance they do "liabilityguard" only £19 a year.

[url="https://www.jltonline.co.uk/secure/faq.asp?product=LiabilityMusic&promCode=&question=3"]https://www.jltonline.co.uk/secure/faq.asp?...&question=3[/url]

Edited August 6, 2010 by TimR

[TimR]

[quote name='TimR' post='916778' date='Aug 6 2010, 10:25 AM']I was insured with music guard. BUT again the insurance is only for the person with the cover NOT the band so each member needs their own insurance.

If you just want liability insurance they do "liabilityguard" only £19 a year.

[url="https://www.jltonline.co.uk/secure/faq.asp?product=LiabilityMusic&promCode=&question=3"]https://www.jltonline.co.uk/secure/faq.asp?...&question=3[/url][/quote]

Did some more digging as I need to renew and ideally insure my band as well. I would speak to them as they will extend the insurance to "Associates" ie other members of the band, roadies etc. Obviously at cost

Edited August 6, 2010 by TimR

[OldGit]

[quote name='TimR' post='916511' date='Aug 5 2010, 10:46 PM']Watch that the insurance covers all of the band and not just the person named in the insurance.[/quote]

+1
Also see if you can get it without the band name on it.
We lent our PA to some mates one time, weturned up with it and the venue manager was very jobsworth.
Wanted to see the PLI certificate which we had with us.
"Wrong band" he said and wouldn't let us set up our PA for them.....


Lots of venues are requesting PLI so you may find a it worth having anyway.

[nig]

You know, its the public that attend gigs that thould have public liability insurance, they are always pissed and falling over all your stuff ! and the venues too. they have other types of insurance.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='nig' post='916833' date='Aug 6 2010, 11:25 AM']You know, its the public that attend gigs that thould have public liability insurance, they are always pissed and falling over all your stuff ! and the venues too. they have other types of insurance.[/quote]

The old 'fall backwards over the front monitor' move.

[OldGit]

[quote name='nig' post='916833' date='Aug 6 2010, 11:25 AM']You know, its the public that attend gigs that thould have public liability insurance, they are always pissed and falling over all your stuff ! and the venues too. they have other types of insurance.[/quote]

Yeah but they want to blame the band.....

Drunk falls into a PA stack and gets hit when the top box falls on them? Band's fault.
Drunk punter takes a tumble over hay bale or breaks ankle on rough floor in barn during barn dance? Band's fault.
Punter goes deaf due to sticking hairy head in bass bin? Band's fault ....

[nig]

lol, exactly.

[flyfisher]

Since any venue will surely have PLI, why is it necessary for bands to have it as well? OK, I know it will depend on their precise policy and exclusions, but I'm thinking in more general terms and surely it would be more sensible, possibly cheaper even, for the venue to hold insurance covering anyone inside their venue?

Also, asking for PAT testing seems to be a bit of a scam to me since band equipment is not really portable in the grand scheme of things is it?

From: [url="http://www.pat-testing.info/appliance.htm"]http://www.pat-testing.info/appliance.htm[/url]
[quote]The National Association of Professional Inspectors and Testers (napit) define a portable appliance as 'any electrical item which can or is intended, to be moved whilst connected to an electrical supply.'[/quote]

[TimR]

The venue insurance covers the venue owner from damage that the venue owner does and hopefully any of the venues employees. As you are not technically directly employed by the venue owner you will not be included on his insurance. I suppose they could but that would make their insurance pretty expensive and difficult to manage. Hence the post I made earlier about making sure that THE WHOLE BAND is covered, not just the person taking out the insurance.

The punter will sue the venue who will be protected by their insurance who will then come after you.

What happens if someone climbs onto the stage and throws your mike into the audience and hurts someone? Do you want to be arguing over whose fault it is or just pass the problem to your insurance company's lawyer?

If your van breaks down on the way to a £20,000 wedding do you want to be arguing with the Bride and Grooms insurer? For the sake of £100 you save yourself a lot of hassle and money.

Edited August 6, 2010 by TimR

[flyfisher]

[quote name='TimR' post='917051' date='Aug 6 2010, 03:15 PM']The venue insurance covers the venue owner from damage that the venue owner does and hopefully any of the venues employees. As you are not technically directly employed by the venue owner you will not be included on his insurance. I suppose they could but that would make their insurance pretty expensive and difficult to manage.[/quote]
I'm not convinced. The venue owner is putting on a show for the public. The public are paying him, not the band. The band's contract is with the venue owner, not the public. Does the venue owner require temporary bar staff to have PLI?

Having said that, I agree that things could get messy, but I suspect that's because the insurance industry likes it that way so they can sell olverlapping policies to everyone instead of a simple, comprehensive policy for the venue itself.


[quote name='TimR' post='917051' date='Aug 6 2010, 03:15 PM']What happens if someone climbs onto the stage and throws your mike into the audience and hurts someone? Do you want to be arguing over whose fault it is or just pass the problem to your insurance company's lawyer?[/quote]
I understand your point, but surely ownership of an item doesn't make you liable if someone else 'steals' it and harms someone with it? Are you liable if someone steals your car and kills someone with it? if so, then the world really is going mad.


[quote name='TimR' post='917051' date='Aug 6 2010, 03:15 PM']If your van breaks down on the way to a £20,000 wedding do you want to be arguing with the Bride and Grooms insurer? For the sake of £100 you save yourself a lot of hassle and money.[/quote]
Yep, that's a fair, though different, point. If the band has contracted with the bride and groom then non-appearance would be a breach of that contract. It's not a PLI issue though.

[TimR]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='917242' date='Aug 6 2010, 06:01 PM']I'm not convinced. The venue owner is putting on a show for the public. The public are paying him, not the band. The band's contract is with the venue owner, not the public. Does the venue owner require temporary bar staff to have PLI?

Having said that, I agree that things could get messy, but I suspect that's because the insurance industry likes it that way so they can sell olverlapping policies to everyone instead of a simple, comprehensive policy for the venue itself.[/quote]
Temporary bar staff are being employed by the venue - that is clear cut. Who are you, the Bass player, being employed by? Is the venue paying you or "The Band". What is "The Band". Do you have a leader? Is he paying you. It all gets very messy and when there is a problem and you are going to get sued - people will point fingers and get very slippery.

[quote name='flyfisher' post='917242' date='Aug 6 2010, 06:01 PM']I understand your point, but surely ownership of an item doesn't make you liable if someone else 'steals' it and harms someone with it? Are you liable if someone steals your car and kills someone with it? if so, then the world really is going mad.[/quote]
Did you take all precautions necessary to prevent this happening or did the venue take all precautions necessary? Do you want to be paying a lawyer to determine this or would you rather your insurance dealt with it. Our company car insurance only covers people employed by the company to drive our cars or people who have been named to drive them. This reduces the risk to the insurance company and keeps the costs down.

No doubt the venue could get insurance that covers every band but the insurance would be expensive. Some big venues do - others say you must provide it. When was the last time a pub asked to see your insurance certificate?

[quote name='flyfisher' post='917242' date='Aug 6 2010, 06:01 PM']Yep, that's a fair, though different, point. If the band has contracted with the bride and groom then non-appearance would be a breach of that contract. It's not a PLI issue though.[/quote]
Agreed. That was just a general insurance point.

[flyfisher]

You're probably right. I was making the mistake of trying to take a sensible and reasonable approach to such things, but I guess the legal and insurance industries like to conspire against such behaviour in order to take more of our money. C'est la vie.