Stacker Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' post='917605' date='Aug 7 2010, 01:01 AM']Right back at you:- [url="http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main?query=prototype&title=21st"]prototype[/url] prototype noun 1 an original model [b]from which later forms are copied, developed or derived[/b]. 2 a first working version, eg of a vehicle or aircraft. 3 someone or something that exemplifies a type. [b]4 a primitive or ancestral form of something[/b]. prototypal adj. prototypic adj. prototypical adj. prototypically adverb. ETYMOLOGY: 17c: from Greek prototypos primitive or original. It is not absolutely necesarily the first working version that is a prototype, since later copies can be derived or developed, and further copies may be derived and developed from those, all before a manufacturer reaches a final version for production. [url="http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventors/dyson.htm"]Just ask Mr Dyson how many prototype vacuum cleaners he went through![/url][/quote] It's not the prototype, man! How can it be?? You'er telling me a stack knob bass with a FUZZ CIRCUIT is the first ever Jazz bass?? Your lift at b from Chambers above states '..from which laters forms are copied', ergo, Hebies bass ain't a 'prototype' of any kind! Some people will believe anything! Edited August 7, 2010 by Stacker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99ster Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 [quote name='King Tut' post='917623' date='Aug 7 2010, 01:34 AM']Let's not get hung up on the semantics of 'prototype'! It's about herbie's bass and him letting the OP play it. Herbie says it's a 'prototype' - that's enough for me![/quote] +1 Herbie is a gentleman & a legend & if he says he bought it in October 1959 then that's good enough for me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markorbit Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 I want to know more about how the bass plays and sounds from someone else's perspective. I wouldn't be too surprised if it was hugely underwhelming considering it's heritage. I also get the impression that Herbie is not the type of guy who would be overly finicky about set ups and stuff. He just plays the things and prefers the upright anyway! What I am noticing though is that there are a few famous recording basses that are set with particularly high action. Maybe the purity of sound wins against the ease of playing for these guys. If you have seen Herbie's playing on 'Show Me How To Play'.com you can isolate the blue Jazz and listen and watch Herbie solo at close quarters. It's really excellent to see him play stuff like Space Oddity. Very pure tone with the 88s. I highly recommend the £1.99 it costs to download that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 [quote name='Stacker' post='917697' date='Aug 7 2010, 08:54 AM']It's not the prototype, man! How can it be?? You'er telling me a stack knob bass with a FUZZ CIRCUIT is the first ever Jazz bass?? Your lift at b from Chambers above states '..from which laters forms are copied', ergo, Hebies bass ain't a 'prototype' of any kind! Some people will believe anything![/quote] OK, what you seem to have missed is that it may be a prototype for a variation on the Jazz bass that never made it. So no, its not the prototype to the Jazz bass as you know it, but that does not make it any less of a prototype. Face it, Fender, Herbie and everyone else who has read this pretty much disagrees with you. If the Jazz bass that we know had tuned out to be a copy of Herbs you would then denounce any other variation that Fender call a prototype as not one. Clearly that is not how prototyping works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 For an overview of the real complexities of prototyping see [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype"]here[/url] at Wikipedia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacker Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' post='917955' date='Aug 7 2010, 01:45 PM']OK, what you seem to have missed is that it may be a prototype for a variation on the Jazz bass that never made it. So no, its not the prototype to the Jazz bass as you know it, but that does not make it any less of a prototype. Face it, Fender, Herbie and everyone else who has read this pretty much disagrees with you. If the Jazz bass that we know had tuned out to be a copy of Herbs you would then denounce any other variation that Fender call a prototype as not one. Clearly that is not how prototyping works![/quote] [i]'Face it, Fender, Herbie and everyone else who has read this pretty much disagrees with you.'[/i] Really? Tell you what: let me take this up with Fender. And I'll get back to you and Herbie with the result. Is that ok? Or Not? Edited August 7, 2010 by Stacker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Why are some people such pedants? What if it turns out this bass is later or whatever? All you're doing is devaluing an old man's pride and joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacker Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 'Why are some people such pedants?' I quite agree; I'm surrounded by them on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plux_the_Duck Posted August 7, 2010 Author Share Posted August 7, 2010 Who cares if it was the first "prototype" or a later "prototype." What I can say is it does have the stacks and is missing the switch which would be where the fuzz circuit was, herbie told me this while I was holding it. thank you markorbit for asking, it was actually REALLY easy to play, even though it had the highest action I've played. I'm guessing down to the strings and set up on it. I love the way the body has worn away so much and the fact he said that I could just pick up and use this bass whenever I wanted was the coolest thing (I even got it in a photo shoot with the the local argus newspaper), The fact I got to gig a bass which is more than 3 times my age and worth who knows what, is credit to herb's amazing kindness and the fact he is such a gent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 [quote name='Stacker' post='917595' date='Aug 7 2010, 12:33 AM']There can only be [i]one[/i] prototype. A [i]prototype[/i] is the first and original design of what all other designs follow on from. There cannot possibly be two.[/quote] Well, Fender themselves would seem to disagree with you there... photo caption from their [url="http://www.fender.com/news/index.php?display_article=503"]website[/url]: [i]"Close-up of [b]a[/b] 1959 Jazz Bass prototype shows the soon-discarded soapbar pickup."[/i] So if Fender reckon there was more than one prototype of their own product, that's good enough for me. And if Herbie Flowers says he bought his bass in 1959, that's also good enough for me. When comes down do it, what the f*** does it really matter? It's still the bass (and the bassist) on Space Oddity, Walk on the Wild Side, War Of The Worlds, Diamond Dogs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Its definitely pre production and thats all that matters. Herbie gets a bit irritated by pedants talking about his bass. He know what it is and doesn't have anything else to prove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Ha ha ha, this site just amazes me sometimes. How can a great thread turn into the usual mindless BC slanging match?? Get a grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacker Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='918356' date='Aug 7 2010, 09:27 PM']Its definitely pre production and thats all that matters. Herbie gets a bit irritated by pedants talking about his bass. He know what it is and doesn't have anything else to prove.[/quote] So that's all right then ? Thank God that's all cleared up! And thanks for letting Herbie speak through you, Kiwi! Edited August 7, 2010 by Stacker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacker Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Get a grip the lot of you! You're nothing but sheep if you think that wreck is a 'prototype'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 [quote name='Stacker' post='918363' date='Aug 7 2010, 08:37 PM']So that's all right then ? Thank God that's all cleared up! And thanks for letting Herbie speak through you, Kiwi![/quote] He's not speaking through me but I did talk to him about the origins of this instrument when I met him. It didn't take a mind reader to see him getting more than a little irked by the pointlessness of the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 [quote name='Stacker' post='918368' date='Aug 7 2010, 09:44 PM']Get a grip the lot of you! You're nothing but sheep if you think that wreck is a 'prototype'![/quote] That's us told then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Yeah. Fancy us being taken in by the evil old Flowers man and his wickedness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plux_the_Duck Posted August 7, 2010 Author Share Posted August 7, 2010 [quote name='Stacker' post='918368' date='Aug 7 2010, 09:44 PM']Get a grip the lot of you! You're nothing but sheep if you think that wreck is a 'prototype'![/quote] if its pre-production, then it can only be a prototype. and now NO MORE talking about if its a prototype or not, it does not matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markorbit Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Herbie hasn't had a manufacturer make a Signature bass (which is a shame, can you imagine a Fender Custom Shop model with the quality of the Pino?) so I got one built. It's Lake Placid Blue but not as dark as that 59. 7.5 inch radius Rio Rosewood fingerboard. It's strung with Trubass 88s. Pickups are Fralins. The custom switch is a series/parallel switcher. I've since removed the thumbrest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 [quote name='markorbit' post='918456' date='Aug 8 2010, 12:27 AM']Herbie hasn't had a manufacturer make a Signature bass (which is a shame, can you imagine a Fender Custom Shop model with the quality of the Pino?) so I got one built. It's Lake Placid Blue but not as dark as that 59. 7.5 inch radius Rio Rosewood fingerboard. It's strung with Trubass 88s. Pickups are Fralins. The custom switch is a series/parallel switcher. I've since removed the thumbrest.[/quote] That looks rather lovely. I guess if there was a Fender Custom Shop version it would probably be a relic like the Pino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 That sir, is a fabulous looking bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99ster Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 [quote name='Rayman' post='918547' date='Aug 8 2010, 09:17 AM']That sir, is a fabulous looking bass.[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 I'm making a relic replica of this bass! complete with fuzz switch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99ster Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 [quote name='wesfinn' post='918701' date='Aug 8 2010, 01:04 PM']I'm making a relic replica of this bass! complete with fuzz switch![/quote] Nice one Wes! And I've still got my '60 Jazz if you want to come over & check it out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryPotter Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 (edited) [quote name='markorbit' post='918456' date='Aug 8 2010, 12:27 AM']Herbie hasn't had a manufacturer make a Signature bass (which is a shame, can you imagine a Fender Custom Shop model with the quality of the Pino?) so I got one built. It's Lake Placid Blue but not as dark as that 59. 7.5 inch radius Rio Rosewood fingerboard. It's strung with Trubass 88s. Pickups are Fralins. The custom switch is a series/parallel switcher. I've since removed the thumbrest.[/quote] Does that make yours a prototype then? :-p Edited August 11, 2010 by HarryPotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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