Bilbo's campaign for the elimination of bad jazz...

[derrenleepoole]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='919751' date='Aug 9 2010, 04:02 PM']Don't know any of them so will have a look around (love Mike Walker though not so sure about Zorn)[/quote]

O'o is a very good approach album and is very jazzy - it's one of the albums where he doesn't play, but other musicians interpret his scores etc. The Mike Walker album is very good. I can't recommend Phronesis enough too

[Bilbo]

I don't want anyone to get the idea that this is about elitism and snobbery. This is about crap music being played crap. Jazz, like all ensemble music, is a collective art. If there are weak links that prevent it being the best it can be, we have a responsibility to do something about it, even if, as in this case, the thing we do is to not play. If there is any integrity at play here it is the honesty of saying 'no, I will not play because, however hard we try, because of your lack of preparation and practice, it will not be good music and does not deserve to be played'.

This isn't about 'that trombone player is a little too old fashioned for my tastes', 'the saxophonist needs to work on his ideas' or 'the piano player plays too many Bud Powell licks' etc. This about every note from bar one of the first tune being dead, souless, unimaginative and excruciatingly pointless. It is about giving Jazz a bad name in front of the viewing public and, just as importantly, it is about me feeling that, however hard I concentrate, however hard I work at my contribution, it will suck. And, actually, if one is absolutely honest about it, it is actually quite unprofessional.

[farmer61]

Sort of hear what Bilbo is saying, but I'd rather encourage people to be out playing live than hear someone singing to backing tracks or have to endure a DJ.

Any live music is better than no live music.

I always thought there were no such things as wrong notes in Jazz. Whenever I mess up I have "Jazz" shouted at me

[Paul_C]

[quote name='farmer61' post='919806' date='Aug 9 2010, 04:50 PM']Any live music is better than no live music.[/quote]

you've not been to enough acoustic open mic. nights then

[witterth]

I agree with what Bilbo says to an extent ...well the "arrogant" bit anyway
I'd have loved to have seen His first gig (that he worked so hard towards in 1980"ish") he must have been brilliant.

Shheeshh!

But really....I get/understand your point though, Bilbo, but then again, people just,playing, music,.. good or bad, doesn't undermine anything...its just.. out there

Robbie Shakespeare once said in an interview I read,
"get out there and play, with anyone, you can learn from everyone" ...well that's to paraphrase,
but that hasn't done the reggae genre any harm has it?

don't worry about it if you play in the odd "dodgy" band here and there. Jazz wont DIE.

if punters want to "laugh" at anything, F##k 'em!! you're the one driving home with the moolar so whos the fool?
art? schmart!

BTW
good post Mr B, gottem at it!! (hook line and sinker)especially me!!

[Toddy]

Wasnt Ray Charles accused of being a Nat Cole impersonator before he really found his voice ?,,, covers and tributes,, pah humbug...

good thread tho,, love and grooviness.....

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' post='919670' date='Aug 9 2010, 02:32 PM']It was nice of you to come and see us Bilbo - introduce yourself next time.

I think you are totally right to do this if it feels right for you. There are certain stage, [b]TV and movie actors who are very selective about the rolls they take on[/b], and it usually does them immense good from the credibility point of view. Then there are others who will be seen in anything. No matter how bad. It eventually damages them.[/quote]

They obviously need to take it up with catering.

[Toddy]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='919955' date='Aug 9 2010, 06:26 PM']They obviously need to take it up with catering.[/quote]


Nicccccccee

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='Toddy' post='919965' date='Aug 9 2010, 07:35 PM']Nicccccccee[/quote]

[attachment=56166:jazz220.jpg]

really nice!

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='920008' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:17 PM'][attachment=56166:jazz220.jpg]

really nice![/quote]

[Bilbo]

[quote name='witterth' post='919869' date='Aug 9 2010, 05:53 PM']I'd have loved to have seen His first gig (that he worked so hard towards in 1980"ish") he must have been brilliant.[/quote]

It was a rock band that had its faults but it was ok and sounded like a rock band. It was rehearsed and it was tight (I was 17, the rest of the band were 30+). We did a Radio One session three months later so it couldn't have been that bad.

Seriously, though. Check this out and tell me I am wrong.

The piano solo at 1.00 is a doozy.


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w...feature=related[/url]

This is even better...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1[/url]

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='920047' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:50 PM']It was a rock band that had its faults but it was ok and sounded like a rock band. It was rehearsed and it was tight (I was 17, the rest of the band were 30+). We did a Radio One session three months later so it couldn't have been that bad.

Seriously, though. Check this out and tell me I am wrong.

The piano solo at 1.00 is a doozy.


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w...feature=related[/url]

This is even better...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1[/url][/quote]

[Bilbo]

Told you. Now THAT skeleton is out of the closet, my reputation is in tatters.....

[Paul_C]

those videos touched me, and not in a good way . .

Edited August 9, 2010 by Paul_C

[jakenewmanbass]

I wonder what you think of this Bilbo?
yours truly on a twenties gig, what I love about this gig is how the guys just play it right, they are all good players in my view and do what is right for the gig each of them is capable of playing very convincingly in a myriad of settings.
I get your point regarding quality but I get the feeling you'd not like to do this gig? am I wrong?

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='920047' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:50 PM']It was a rock band that had its faults but it was ok and sounded like a rock band. It was rehearsed and it was tight (I was 17, the rest of the band were 30+). We did a Radio One session three months later so it couldn't have been that bad.

Seriously, though. Check this out and tell me I am wrong.

The piano solo at 1.00 is a doozy.


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w...feature=related[/url]

This is even better...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1[/url][/quote]

Wow, one hell of a way of making your point Bilbo, up until then I wasn't 100% on your side! As for the saxophonist picking up his pint on a video that is obviously intended as a commercial tool, IMO that's almost as bad as the singer's phrasing and the attempted piano solo. Haven't had the courage to watch the second video if you're saying it is worse!

[Marvin]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='920047' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:50 PM']It was a rock band that had its faults but it was ok and sounded like a rock band. It was rehearsed and it was tight (I was 17, the rest of the band were 30+). We did a Radio One session three months later so it couldn't have been that bad.

Seriously, though. Check this out and tell me I am wrong.

The piano solo at 1.00 is a doozy.


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w...feature=related[/url]

This is even better...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1[/url][/quote]
Crumbs, that's just bad.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='920094' date='Aug 9 2010, 09:31 PM']I wonder what you think of this Bilbo?
yours truly on a twenties gig, what I love about this gig is how the guys just play it right, they are all good players in my view and do what is right for the gig each of them is capable of playing very convincingly in a myriad of settings.
I get your point regarding quality but I get the feeling you'd not like to do this gig? am I wrong?

[/quote]
I really liked that. Are the two women dancing at the front with the band?

[Bilbo]

That video you posted was fine, Jake. Not my favourite sub genre but it sounded like it was supposed to; it swings, people's phrasing is ok etc. My videos are just off the scale for plain wrong. That band got paid £600 for that gig. I have seen people sentenced to prison for less.....

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='920047' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:50 PM']It was a rock band that had its faults but it was ok and sounded like a rock band. It was rehearsed and it was tight (I was 17, the rest of the band were 30+). We did a Radio One session three months later so it couldn't have been that bad.

Seriously, though. Check this out and tell me I am wrong.

The piano solo at 1.00 is a doozy.


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w...feature=related[/url]

This is even better...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1[/url][/quote]
Apologies to anyone involved, but that was bad.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='920148' date='Aug 9 2010, 10:30 PM']I really liked that. Are the two women dancing at the front with the band?[/quote]
Sort of, they were hired separately but worked with us, or rather we worked with them by playing along while they taught the audience to charlston etc, it was nice because we tinkled along really quietly while they spoke and then louder when they got the crowd dancing, and we varied the tempo as people got more accustomed to the moves. The girls were really nice and moved very well.

Edit
thanks btw

Edited August 9, 2010 by jakesbass

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='920153' date='Aug 9 2010, 10:33 PM']That video you posted was fine, Jake. Not my favourite sub genre but it sounded like it was supposed to; it swings, people's phrasing is ok etc. My videos are just off the scale for plain wrong. That band got paid £600 for that gig. I have seen people sentenced to prison for less.....[/quote]
I agree that your vids were pretty poor but tbh £600 is not a lot for a function band (you get what you pay for...) we had a decent fee and accommodation (more than double) for that gig as it was in the west country me and the horn being London(ish) piano, drums, vox from Manchester.
I understand your point about my vid being fine but my question was would you be happy doing it? I enjoy it because the guys are really good so the genre matters less to me. What I'm getting at in my question is that being pro means that if you struggle to get on in a gig like that then you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I just feel blessed to have a bass in my hands at work so will do gigs like that very happily.
I'm hinting towards what it is that drives you to satisfaction in music.

[Marvin]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='920167' date='Aug 9 2010, 10:48 PM']I agree that your vids were pretty poor but tbh £600 is not a lot for a function band (you get what you pay for...) we had a decent fee and accommodation (more than double) for that gig as it was in the west country[size=5][u][i] [b]me and the horn[/b] [/i][/u][/size]being London(ish) piano, drums, vox from Manchester.
I understand your point about my vid being fine but my question was would you be happy doing it? I enjoy it because the guys are really good so the genre matters less to me. What I'm getting at in my question is that being pro means that if you struggle to get on in a gig like that then you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I just feel blessed to have a bass in my hands at work so will do gigs like that very happily.
I'm hinting towards what it is that drives you to satisfaction in music.[/quote]

I can play badly for a lot less than that.

And that bit there Jake, could probably have done with a bit of rephrasing. Although I have got a very smutty sense of humour.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Marvin

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Marvin' post='920194' date='Aug 9 2010, 11:25 PM']I can play badly for a lot less than that.

And that bit there Jake, could probably have done with a bit of rephrasing. Although I have got a very smutty sense of humour.[/quote]

[witterth]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='920047' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:50 PM']It was a rock band that had its faults but it was ok and sounded like a rock band. It was rehearsed and it was tight (I was 17, the rest of the band were 30+). We did a Radio One session three months later so it couldn't have been that bad.

Seriously, though. Check this out and tell me I am wrong.

The piano solo at 1.00 is a doozy.


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrhE5ARc_w...feature=related[/url]

This is even better...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2fl1_kqsas&NR=1[/url][/quote]
...Fer.....Fhh...aa...kk..in....'elll

at least, no one can see you! Bilbo

As I said (and its now confimed, your right.) there are some "challenged" players out there, and if I'd seen those performances....
I'd have probably laughed out loud (most likley..well....maybe not....well yeah, ok .... probably I would....but I'm a cukt like that)
But then, I'd be watching,..not playing, and so, who would be the most arrogant?
the vouyer? the non giger? the sod who wont even try?
but stands back laughing?.....oh yeah, it'd be the critic.. (tosseur)

I'd be willing to bet if you could ask Charlie Parker about new musicians,or indeed bad ones, he'd welcome them all, its just that, if a good or bad one meant he didnt get his money he'd be reet cross!! (I dont know where I'm going with this, but its about money!!ha ha Charlie Parker would think about the "job" or "gig", you "cats") and knowing if he were playing, nowt would be going wrong anyway

Well, people trying to raise their game, by playing with better players,and engaging with them, crime? earning a crust,crime? doing their best, crime? well...

its long way down off that horse kimosaby

we were all young/starting out once, Mr B
(bet that rock gig wasn't as good as you'd have us belive!!)

again, I take your point though
W

Edited August 10, 2010 by witterth