MM Roasted Necks

[MB1]

[quote name='Johnston' post='931927' date='Aug 21 2010, 02:26 PM']So would I be right in saying that it is basically a procedure that would be suited to climates with extreme weather or changes. So good in a dry environment or a humid one or somewhere that swings from extreme to extreme but for somewhere more moderate it's just for it's pretty looks?[/quote]

MB1.
I know this one!..I know this one!... its Carbon Graphite !

[SteveO]

[quote name='MB1' post='931928' date='Aug 21 2010, 03:30 PM']MB1.
I know this one!..I know this one!... its Carbon Graphite ![/quote]

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Johnston' post='931927' date='Aug 21 2010, 06:26 AM']So would I be right in saying that it is basically a procedure that would be suited to climates with extreme weather or changes. So good in a dry environment or a humid one or somewhere that swings from extreme to extreme but for somewhere more moderate it's just for it's pretty looks?[/quote]

Here's Sadowsky's somewhat more reasonable claims for the process.

"Sadowsky Guitars has always taken pride in the quality and stability of our neck wood. We are now pleased to offer "roasted maple" necks for an unprecedented level of stability. Lumber for maple necks and fingerboards is placed in a special oven after normal kiln dying. The wood is roasted at temperatures ranging from 180º to 220º Celsius. The result of this treatment is wood that is significantly more resistant to absorbing or releasing moisture. With this increased stability, the "roasted maple" process enables us to offer figured maple neck blanks for the first time in our three decades of instrument making. We have always advocated that figured neck stock was too unstable to use. However, any piece of wood than has a stability problem will warp during the roasting process and be discarded. It would also be a recommended option for players who reside in areas of extreme humidity (low or high), or who travel a lot through variable climates, as well as players who desire a figured maple neck for aesthetic reasons.

NOTE: The roasting process is performed on lumber. It cannot be applied retroactively to finished necks. Any revisions to existing instruments already on order will delay build time by approximately five months."
[url="http://sadowsky.com/new/index.html"]http://sadowsky.com/new/index.html[/url]

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='MB1' post='931926' date='Aug 21 2010, 06:26 AM']MB1.
...Theres some stuff called PEG?...are Steely Dan aware of this? [/quote]
Probably not as it's only available in Aja.

[tino]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='931924' date='Aug 21 2010, 02:21 PM']If you insist.

According to what I read on the Sadowsky site the magic fire changes the composition of the neck to make it more stable in regards to moisture. I could come up with a hypothetical about cellulose melting slightly but not burning and sealing pores or something so it could have some shred of truth under that giant heap of BS. There's some stuff called PEG that woodturners use on green wood that replaces the water (I think) and makes wood stable without drying it.[/quote]
And once roasted a fag burn will be applied by use of further thermal treatment,possibly in the form of a ciggy,this additional treatment will set you back another $200 but just think you to can now play just like Clapton in any climate rain or shine....
Hey why not go the whole hog ,increase the temperature of the roasting process and deny further air....HEY PRESTO Charcoal...........now if you run out with all yer pals around just chuck another Sterling on the barby fan vibrantly for 2 mins and just add burgers...

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='932451' date='Aug 22 2010, 07:26 AM']Here's Sadowsky's somewhat more reasonable claims for the process.

"Sadowsky Guitars has always taken pride in the quality and stability of our neck wood. We are now pleased to offer "roasted maple" necks for an unprecedented level of stability. Lumber for maple necks and fingerboards is placed in a special oven after normal kiln dying. The wood is roasted at temperatures ranging from 180º to 220º Celsius. The result of this treatment is wood that is significantly more resistant to absorbing or releasing moisture. With this increased stability, the "roasted maple" process enables us to offer figured maple neck blanks for the first time in our three decades of instrument making. We have always advocated that figured neck stock was too unstable to use. However, any piece of wood than has a stability problem will warp during the roasting process and be discarded. It would also be a recommended option for players who reside in areas of extreme humidity (low or high), or who travel a lot through variable climates, as well as players who desire a figured maple neck for aesthetic reasons.

NOTE: The roasting process is performed on lumber. It cannot be applied retroactively to finished necks. Any revisions to existing instruments already on order will delay build time by approximately five months."
[url="http://sadowsky.com/new/index.html"]http://sadowsky.com/new/index.html[/url][/quote]
I still don't believe it.

Birdseye and flamed maple necks have been used on many basses in the past with no warping issues. In fact Ernie Ball used birdseye maple in their necks from 87 to maybe the early 90's because it was the same price as normal maple. There have been no reports of those basses having neck issues at all. In fact, its even been suggested to me by some luthiers that birdseye maple is more dense than normal maple, NOT less stable.

Flame maple, especially quarter sawn, has been in common use by luthiers again with no specific issues against particular grain patterns.

If wood is going to warp, it will warp because of improper drying, NOT because of the grain pattern. Also, Fodera leave their wood on shelves for a couple of years to let it settle a little and then plane it to shape. There is simply no need to chuck away a mildly warped piece of wood if it can be planed to shape.

I still think these claims for roasted necks are pure, unadulterated bass quackery.

[tino]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='932482' date='Aug 22 2010, 08:58 AM']I still don't believe it.


I still think these claims for roasted necks are pure, unadulterated bass quackery.[/quote]
By quackery I assume you agree its all BOl*Ocks......
There are timbers such as lignum Vitae that are extremely dense and do not appear to suffer from temperature or moisture variation and the structure & density is such that truss rods would not be needed....possibly a choice for a fretless????
Only disadvantage would appear to be the weight of such a neck...do away with headstock possibly...anyone know if its ever been used as such????

My Stingray found a new home last night and I now have a nice new Heritage.......Whoops...........where did those other 2 strings spring from

[Kiwi]

[quote name='tino' post='932492' date='Aug 22 2010, 09:14 AM']By quackery I assume you agree its all BOl*Ocks......
There are timbers such as lignum Vitae that are extremely dense and do not appear to suffer from temperature or moisture variation and the structure & density is such that truss rods would not be needed....possibly a choice for a fretless????
Only disadvantage would appear to be the weight of such a neck...do away with headstock possibly...anyone know if its ever been used as such????[/quote]
Its been used on occasions although I can't remember where I saw it. There's no need to use lignum vitae for a whole neck, just stringers are enough. Truss rods are handy for other reasons though, not just stiffness. A bass neck needs to be stiff but it only needs to be [u]stiff enough[/u], and the wood doesn't have to be dense to be stiff either. One of the stiffest woods out there by weight is spruce but its not stiff enough for a neck. Best choice for a fretless is a wood like mahogany which is warm sounding but mahogany can be sensitive to changes in humidity so typically needs to be supported by a stiffer wood like...birdseye maple.

[tino]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='932501' date='Aug 22 2010, 09:30 AM']Its been used on occasions although I can't remember where I saw it. There's no need to use lignum vitae for a whole neck, just stringers are enough. Truss rods are handy for other reasons though, not just stiffness. A bass neck needs to be stiff but it only needs to be [u]stiff enough[/u], and the wood doesn't have to be dense to be stiff either. One of the stiffest woods out there by weight is spruce but its not stiff enough for a neck. Best choice for a fretless is a wood like mahogany which is warm sounding but mahogany can be sensitive to changes in humidity so typically needs to be supported by a stiffer wood like...birdseye maple. [/quote]
I have a thing about quirky instruments and in recent years have had instruments built that fly in the face of modern thinking in fact Tim Martin is currently building me a repro of a 1950 model Fender Esquire the neck in maple will have no truss rod even though I realise fender recalled most of those instruments way back then because of the issues the necks had...
Anyway back to your reply,I was given to understand that LV has almost no flex whatsoever just that the weight may preclude its use.?

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='tino' post='932479' date='Aug 22 2010, 12:53 AM']And once roasted a fag burn will be applied by use of further thermal treatment,possibly in the form of a ciggy,this additional treatment will set you back another $200 but just think you to can now play just like Clapton in any climate rain or shine....
Hey why not go the whole hog ,increase the temperature of the roasting process and deny further air....HEY PRESTO Charcoal...........now if you run out with all yer pals around just chuck another Sterling on the barby fan vibrantly for 2 mins and just add burgers... [/quote]
If you can work limited edition in there I think it's ready to post on the EBMM site.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='932482' date='Aug 22 2010, 12:58 AM']I still don't believe it.[/quote]Sounds reasonable.[quote]Birdseye and flamed maple necks have been used on many basses in the past with no warping issues. In fact Ernie Ball used birdseye maple in their necks from 87 to maybe the early 90's because it was the same price as normal maple.[/quote]Those necks are famous for their instability in these parts and owners have referred to the truss rod adjuster as the 5th tuner. I've been tasked with saving a few of those necks myself. Where did you hear flame was the same price? You can often find a few nice flamed pieces in a stack of straight maple but if it's pulled out as flame the price is much higher.[quote]There have been no reports of those basses having neck issues at all. In fact, its even been suggested to me by some luthiers that birdseye maple is more dense than normal maple, NOT less stable.[/quote]Birdseye is amongst the densest of the maple choices but the denser the wood the less stable it is. It's harder but less stable.[quote]Flame maple, especially quarter sawn, has been in common use by luthiers again with no specific issues against particular grain patterns.[/quote]
Hamer made a bazillion heavily flamed maple necks in the 1990's, they had huge problems. Figured wood is always less stable than the straight grained pieces. You can find many instances that go either way so it can work and straight grain can warp but overall, less stable.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Vibrating G String

[tino]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='931884' date='Aug 21 2010, 01:39 PM']I resent that, there are literally hundreds of us here in America™ who are well tuned to sarcasm and irony. We do frown on the tongues in cheek thing as Jesus specifically forbids that in the Bible.[/quote]
Well Mr Ball as I recall
Is something of an arse.
the opportunity presents itself
I couldnt let it pass

[Machines]

tino - I asked for personal attacks not to be posted, please respect that.

[swanbrook]

WOW
I was looking for a forum about bass on this side of the pond,i had never heard of basschat or had i heard of this thread and this is what i stumbled across
i got to about page 6 of this then had to give up.It seems to bypass everyone here that the guy who asked the questions did it like a prick.

i have EBmm and fenders and some others and yes from time to time i go to the EBMM forum.But before i had gone to the forum i had been in contact with ebmm customer service twice and both times they were really helpfull.

i dont as most of you say "like bp's ring" and i dont think the sun shines out of it.i dont like the fact that it is as controlled as it is but i do respect it.

but what i have learned is that there is alot of twats here on this forum,did one of you really go on their forum just to stir up sh1te,come on either your all 16 with no cop on or have way too much time and should spend it do something like .....playing your bass

i love the guys who gave it the whole "i was going to buy a stingray but not after reading that" yeah yeah buy a bass because you like or love it.

btw i am thinking of buying a sandberg,i do like and love my ebmm but i want a jazz type bass (i have 2 fender jazz's but like the tone from the sandberg) and i was hoping to get some info here about them but all i got sofar is guys crying about some yank who stood up to a pain in the arse customer.

oh and guys stick a bmw engine in a ford then ring ford to complain about it and see how you get on.


guys grow up for fvck sake,i really would like to be able to chat more freely about basses but not if this is what its like.




Dave
the non ring licking guy who

[martthebass]

It was only a matter of time.................guess we're not on your Christmas card list then

I suppose you won't hang around for long. Pity you may have learned something, even if it was only some manners (and maybe the ability to punctuate).

Edited August 24, 2010 by martthebass

[Doctor J]

Hi Dave

[tino]

[quote name='Machines' post='934142' date='Aug 23 2010, 08:31 PM']tino - I asked for personal attacks not to be posted, please respect that.[/quote]
My apologies to you squire.......its light hearted and hardly abusive...but Its the last

Once again my apologies

[gafbass02]

I think any further use from this thread may have passed ..

[swanbrook]

sorry,matter of time till what ?

and please dont suppose things about me,i came here to see if i could learn somthing about sandberg basses and this is what i found.

And really sorry about the manners but it would seem that you all had given up on them.

and punctuate ! really is that the problem is it.I would like to hang around i even just found a thread with great deals on sandbergs ;-)

[swanbrook]

Hi Doc

Hows it going dude

[tino]

[quote name='swanbrook' post='934852' date='Aug 24 2010, 02:52 PM']WOW
I was looking for a forum about bass on this side of the pond,i had never heard of basschat or had i heard of this thread and this is what i stumbled across
i got to about page 6 of this then had to give up.It seems to bypass everyone here that the guy who asked the questions did it like a prick.

i have EBmm and fenders and some others and yes from time to time i go to the EBMM forum.But before i had gone to the forum i had been in contact with ebmm customer service twice and both times they were really helpfull.

i dont as most of you say "like bp's ring" and i dont think the sun shines out of it.i dont like the fact that it is as controlled as it is but i do respect it.

but what i have learned is that there is alot of twats here on this forum,did one of you really go on their forum just to stir up sh1te,come on either your all 16 with no cop on or have way too much time and should spend it do something like .....playing your bass

i love the guys who gave it the whole "i was going to buy a stingray but not after reading that" yeah yeah buy a bass because you like or love it.

btw i am thinking of buying a sandberg,i do like and love my ebmm but i want a jazz type bass (i have 2 fender jazz's but like the tone from the sandberg) and i was hoping to get some info here about them but all i got sofar is guys crying about some yank who stood up to a pain in the arse customer.

oh and guys stick a bmw engine in a ford then ring ford to complain about it and see how you get on.


guys grow up for fvck sake,i really would like to be able to chat more freely about basses but not if this is what its like.




Dave
the non ring licking guy who[/quote]
I guess this is a dig at me but Hey Ho...
I joined as I had seen the thread on BP's attitude ...I thought I must find out for myself...I did and his minions have got it in bucket loads...

Still as Im not in the market for a sterling it really doesnt matter.

I have wound up others on here yet other than a bit of a barracking thats been seen as just a bit off.....However BPs bullys totally wiped me from history...

Dont for one minute think that because I did a prattish prank this site is Not Worthy....
I can learn more on here about a vast array of musical and non related item than I could learn in a life time from BPs Phsycophants..

Any way welcome and I dont always talk Bollox...I promise

[gafbass02]

Indeed Tino, well said, welcome swanbrook I hope you enjoy basschat as much as we do, it really is a lovely, warm and friendly place. There's always ups and downs, esp in off topic but hopefully you'll stick around and get to know us all better.

[tino]

[quote name='swanbrook' post='934882' date='Aug 24 2010, 03:22 PM']sorry,matter of time till what ?

and please dont suppose things about me,i came here to see if i could learn somthing about sandberg basses and this is what i found.

And really sorry about the manners but it would seem that you all had given up on them.

and punctuate ! really is that the problem is it.I would like to hang around i even just found a thread with great deals on sandbergs ;-)[/quote]
My Dans got a custom supreme parked up doing nothing,I can have a word with him if its of any interest?

[martthebass]

[quote name='swanbrook' post='934882' date='Aug 24 2010, 03:22 PM']sorry,matter of time till what ?

and please dont suppose things about me,i came here to see if i could learn somthing about sandberg basses and this is what i found.

And really sorry about the manners but it would seem that you all had given up on them.

and punctuate ! really is that the problem is it.I would like to hang around i even just found a thread with great deals on sandbergs ;-)[/quote]

Swanbrook, we seldom bite (except when goaded ). The site is generally well mannered and civilised otherwise, the fact that the Mod's haven't stepped in and erased you from history (sorry Tino) is testement to that.

I apologise if I have drawn incorrect conclusions about you. However you appeared to have drawn a very hasty conclusion regarding the individuals on this site after less than a day of being a member on the forum.

If you can get over your [apparent] anger and search the other hundreds of threads (there are more than this one - honest) for the information you seek I'm sure you'll find it all a more pleasant experience.

Welcome to the forum.....honestly and without prejudice.....

Edited August 24, 2010 by martthebass

[tino]

[quote name='martthebass' date='Aug 24 2010, 03:49 PM' post='934915']

Welcome to the forum.....honestly and without prejudice.....
[/quot
If you can get over your [apparent] anger and search the other hundreds of threads (there are more than this one - honest) for the information you seek I'm sure you'll find it all a more pleasant experience.

I somehow think Dave may well be from the dark side...In which case he will not appreciate niceties.
Also as I have now sold my SR he may well choose not to talk to me ever.....

Anyway this thread led to a bit of a jape......with a smattering of funduggery chucked in for good measure...
Im off to Chicago in the morning. ..I hope they are more fun there