WHAT AND WHY?

[markytbass]

I have been playing bass since I was 17, had a few years without gigging when kids were young. I have had 5 amps/combo's in this time and they have all been under 200 Watts. Ive played small pub venues to outside gigs and never really felt that I needed anything louder. I have read several threads on here and have noticed the variety of amplification used. So what does everyone else use and why, combos or amps and cabs?. Do you really need a 500W+ amp to play a pub or hall gig?. I have played at an open mic night at a pub where we used a 60W combo, it sounded a bit over driven but did the job (how long it would last doing that is a different matter). I also went to a mate's B'day party at a very small pub (the quaker in Darlington) and the guy playing bass had a full Hartke stack (4X10 or 12 and 1X15) and that was way too loud so loud that my ears were itching and it was making me fart. I understand that some like the over drive sound and others prefer a clean sound, some are happy with a small combo whilst others may want a 8X10 or two. So as the topic title says "What and why"?.

[Machines]

Horses for courses really.

I have a 300w head, it only runs at about 2/3rds capacity with one cab, and that's more than enough for me (pub/small clubs <100 people).

I did have a 180w combo which with an extra cab was plenty at about half volume - PA support included however.

[Merton]

Main amp thesedays is a 250W Trace V-Type combo, but since I normally only run it at 8ohms it's probably only developing about 100-125W, volume on about 4. When I plug an extension cab in it's the most monstrous beautiful sound ever, but I rarely need to do that.

I have done gigs with my 100W Trace Elliot Commando combo but that really struggled to keep up, it's good for acoustic gigs tho.



[size=1](edited for correcting crappy smelling pistakes and additional bits )[/size]

Edited December 13, 2007 by Merton

[wateroftyne]

1000w head, 1000w cab. I'll never need to max it in a month of Sundays but, good Lord, it's nice to have the headroom at the big gigs.

I'm picking up a smaller head for smaller gigs like, for example, the Quaker. I like it there.

[wotnwhy]

i use a mixer, 1 side of a power amp (putting out 600w) and a 2x12 cab.

i use a mixer because it's handy for rehersals to save setting up a PA, or if i'm using my upright as well as normal bass. the power amp was handy when i had 2 4ohm cabs (a Glock 2x12 and a Schroeder 1210), but i never really had the need for 2, now it's pretty much redundent. but no point changing the power amp in case there's a time when i could use it. 600w is a good amount of power i think, i very very rarely go above half volume. and thats good not only for sound (not driving the amp or cab too hard), but also for piece of mind, as i know that even if we do a gig where i need twice my normal volume onstage (very unlikely) my rig can handle it.

[Bilbo]

It's all about head room, frequency responses and all sorts of technical s**t. If you have a 120 watt amp, it will no doubt sound loud enough but the sounds may be a bit narrow - like the low B won't really project etc. Not much use for an ERB, eh Dood? Whilst you can easily get away with a 50W guitar amp, a 50W bass amp won't really work. 250W is pretty useful in most situations not requiring a full rig but I have personally settled on 350W. Its not about volume but about quality and depth of tone. All notes have overtones as well as fundamental tones. a small amp won't deliver on the lower/higher range overtones and the sound will be (relatively) thin. Having tweeters in amps like SWR Redheads or Eden Meteros is motivated by the same desire to project certain frequencies.

Its the same reason you have eight double basses and only one piccolo in an orchestra - the hign frequences of the piccolo travel better/farther/faster than the bass frequences so you need to have more to be heard.

Edited December 13, 2007 by bilbo230763

[chris_b]

I've use a 500 watt amp which sounds great when giving out 100, 200 or 300 watts. For example, a 100 watt amp at 100 watts will sound terrible and will probably fail pretty quickly. In my view, if the quality of the sound matters to you, and it doesn't to many players, then you should aim get "your sound" at somewhere between 9 o'clock and 1 o'clock on the volume control.

[gypsymoth]

the why is probably because I like amps.
if run together, my total amps and cabs is comparable to what the who, cream, or zep were running when I saw them - and running biamped or tri-amped is fun and sounds good. one can wish for the opportunity to utilize it all one day.

but what I've really got is versatility - tube amps with 34's, 6550's and 88's, and SS. the biggest is a 200, and I could run that through one 10, or pull a pair of 34's and have 50 watts in the 10, or run 16 ohms with the SS.

the Sound City 200 (kt88's) through one or two 15's is my standard/favorite as for most stuff I prefer that sound, for guitar or bass. but I switch it all around for variety.

[The Funk]

I run 450W a side into a pair of Acme 2x10s. The cabs go very low but those low notes require a lot of power and so it's not overwhelmingly loud, just very clean, defined and robust at useable gig-worthy volume levels, no matter what other instruments are trying to compete with those frequencies.

Sometimes I do daydream about having another pair of Acmes and a second power amp but that would be silly - unless it was in the doom metal side project.

I would probably need that 1800W 4 Acme set-up if I wanted to compete with my guitarist's 120W vintage valve Matamp head (and that's clean valve watts before overdrive/distortion) and pair of Marshall 2x12s. Thankfully he has the sense to leave one at home in the funk band. I should nick his Matamp head and see how that sounds for bass. 120 clean valve watts should be enough for bass.

[markytbass]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I was curious as to what others use. I personally try to go for portability, I do suffer with a bad back so my days of lumping a cab around are over. I did have a Trace Elliott BLX130 with a 10" extension cab and that was great. However I had to sell it when moving house . I have an amp and 1X15 cab at the mo but its only been out of the house once due to the back issue. I will be looking to get a combo soon, something more portable (or a roadie).

[chris_b]

If you have back problems a combo is not a good idea. 2 1x12 Neo cabs and a seperate amp is about as light and portable as you're going to get. I have this set up and I 'm not getting back strain anymore.

[mikeh]

I use a 700 watt head into a 3x10. FOr me its all about quality of sound and headroom. With my rig, even without PA support at a quite big gig (300 People) I've never had to go over 10 o'clock on the volume. The fact thats it a relatively light rig and an easy one man lift is a HUGE bonus.

[Jack]

I agree with mikeh, fantastic sound to begin with, coupled with huge volume and very very very light cabs is the way to go.

GK 1001 (750W) along with one or both GK Neo 112 and 212.

Its so easy to move Im taking the head/112 to gigs where I used to just use a DI box. Well, Id take any amp over none.

[Ou7shined]

Bad back? I found fitting casters really helps.
lifting is minimised to a few brief seconds at a time - not only for me but for wimpy, whiney band mates too.

[jammie17]

[url="http://www.ampeg.com/products/bassamp/ba600/210.html"]http://www.ampeg.com/products/bassamp/ba600/210.html[/url]

[url="http://www.ampeg.com/products/bassamp/ba210/index.html"]http://www.ampeg.com/products/bassamp/ba210/index.html[/url] This one was a great amp!!

The Ampeg BA600- 210 is what I am waiting for. Tremendous power with minimal weight and CASTERS in a small package. I have owned two BA 210's and they were a great amp. I used them for portability for small songwriting rehearsals. WAY overpowered for that and would be a great amp for a small club.

I currently have an SVT CL and matching 810e Cabinet.

Now for the wattage and speaker question. It's really very subjective and equipment matching orientated. A 500 watt head with a inefficient cabinet, will be blown away by a 100 watt head and a ported, 106 db, spl cabinet. Ported cabinets are very popular for this very reason, they are LOUD. But they are also BOOMY....sealed cabinets are "tighter" but don't get as loud, or quite as low as ported cabinets...usually requiring a more powerful amp...depending on how many speakers, sensitivity, etc.

Tube amps have an inherent low "damping" factor, thus sound best with sealed cabinets. Thus the original SVT tube head with the Sealed cabinet, to control speaker movement better. I had a SVT 410 HLF, a ported cabinet, and used it with my SVT all tube head, and it was loud and boomy....sold it and got the sealed 810e cabinet and the sound is fantastic.

So it's all subjective. What sounds good to YOU is the most important thing.

Edited December 15, 2007 by jammie17

[alexclaber]

[quote name='jammie17' post='104756' date='Dec 15 2007, 08:03 PM']Ported cabinets are very popular for this very reason, they are LOUD. But they are also BOOMY....sealed cabinets are "tighter" but don't get as loud, or quite as low as ported cabinets...usually requiring a more powerful amp...depending on how many speakers, sensitivity, etc.[/quote]

No, not really. If you want to know why, download WinISD Pro and look at how response and group delay vary with cab volume and tuning for a given woofer.

Alex

[markytbass]

My first set up was a Marshall valve amp and a 4x12 cab. I think it was a 100W guitar amp and at the time I didn't really care too much about sound, I wanted to be loud like Lemmy. After that came the Carlsboro Stingray and a 1X18 cab which weighed a tonne. I think the speaker came from a P.A.

I don't know who works out where handles should be on combos and cabs but I don't think much thought goes into it. The Laney I had, had one handle on the top which was useless. I see the newer ones have two, one either side. Castors seem the best solution.

[martinbass7750]

I use a peavey 700 watt head with a 4 ohm EBS neo 210 which gives just under 500 watts. For more sound I add an 8 ohm mag410 which pushes the power up to about 600 watts. I have to cut the bass when I add the 410 or it gets a bit boomy.

I reckon a ebs neo 212 would be better than the 410, but funds don't permit at the moment.

I'd also like to try an epifani ul310 or ul410.

I much prefer the lightweight neo cabs route - my 210 is easily carried in one hand.

[Wil]

If I just use my 2x12, which has a 105db sensitivity rating, I have to max my LM2 to be heard just in rehearsal. With the full 500w into my 2x12 and 1x12, I can run at half way with plenty of headroom. I wouldn't want to rehearse and gig without a comfortable margin to be able to turn up, should my guitarist not exercise restraint with his volume or if we're on a big stage. I like to feel the bass, too, not just hear it under the mix somewhere.

Edited December 15, 2007 by Wil

[jammie17]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='104773' date='Dec 15 2007, 09:21 PM']No, not really. If you want to know why, download WinISD Pro and look at how response and group delay vary with cab volume and tuning for a given woofer.

Alex[/quote]

Been there, done that...and computer programs are great...but Hearing and experience are what I am talking about. Everything has its limitations and strong points.

Edited December 15, 2007 by jammie17

[The Burpster]

[quote name='markytbass' post='104542' date='Dec 14 2007, 10:58 PM']I will be looking to get a combo soon, something more portable (or a roadie).[/quote]

Although it was not cheap, my Mesa walkabout scout112 takes some beating for tone v. portabilty. Its more than capable of doing small gigs, and I´m now shopping for a Mesa 2x10 (and 1x15) to use as bigger venue extensions with the head out of the combo....

You really can have your cake and eat it, although it is an expensive cake!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

IMO combos are almost valueless. Where portability is concerned sticking the head and speaker in the same box just makes for a heavier box. Where sound is concerned, in the effort to keep the overall box size and weight manageable they're even worse than separates vis-a-vis using too small a cab for the drivers within. As for flexibility, I'd rather a separate head and well engineered cabs, using as many or as few cabs as the gig requires so that I'm neither lugging too much gear to a small gig nor under-gunned at a large one. The only combo I'd consider is for personal practice, where output and tone aren't a consideration.

[steve-soar]

Agreed.

[Alien]

As far as I'm concerned, the answer is the same whoever you are. You need the amount of amp power and speakers that gets you heard. That amount could be anything from a 20 Watt practice amp to a full-on concert rig running 3000 Watts through speaker stacks the size of a house.
Horses for courses really.

Andy

[jammie17]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='104957' date='Dec 16 2007, 04:23 PM']IMO combos are almost valueless. Where portability is concerned sticking the head and speaker in the same box just makes for a heavier box. Where sound is concerned, in the effort to keep the overall box size and weight manageable they're even worse than separates vis-a-vis using too small a cab for the drivers within. As for flexibility, I'd rather a separate head and well engineered cabs, using as many or as few cabs as the gig requires so that I'm neither lugging too much gear to a small gig nor under-gunned at a large one. The only combo I'd consider is for personal practice, where output and tone aren't a consideration.[/quote]


[i]"[b]Used on countless session dates over the years and revered as the greatest bass combo ever[/b], the warm tube sound is back in the new B15-R Portaflex which offers more power and flexibility than its 1960 predecessor. 100 watts RMS, vintage 15" speaker, half-power switch, three band EQ, input gain, 5 position mid frequency select, ultra high and ultra low boosts, XLR out with level control, pre/post select switch, impedance selector and removable dolly board with casters round out only some of B15-R's notable features"[/i]

Yeah, those pesky bass combos.....