Hartke or Trace?

[Sparky]

Morning All,

Out of necessity (and decisions tainted by GAS) I've ended up with a mismatched pair of 2x10 cabs to use with my Hartke HA3500 amp. Won't go into the details, but put it this way - I passed up a perfectly good opportunity to complete a pair just so that I could make my GAS hit last a bit longer and try out the different makes. Now I need to make a decision and decide what to keep and what to swap.

Right now I have a Hartke 210XL and a Trace Elliot 2103H (old - vinyl covering). As mentioned above - using both with a Hartke HA3500 head.

The aim is to achieve a 4x10 setup in two cabs so, I'll either sell the TE and buy a Hartke 2.5XL (to complete the Hartke setup). OR sell the Hartke and buy a TE 2103 (one without the horn) to complete the Trace setup.

If I opt for a TE cab setup, I'll be looking to replace the Hartke Head with a TE sometime in the future... but that's another issue (more GAS - whoop whoop!)

I've tried both cabs separately and find the Hartke brighter and more responsive, but the Trace rounder and warmer. I like both of them so need a bit of help to decide! I realise that my decision will ultimately have to be my own - after all, the topic is subjective, but if I could prompt some of you into discussion I may be swayed by the voices of experience and forum wisdom. BTW I've already been told, when I first raised the issue a couple of months back, that I should stick with Hartke so the XL's already have the upper hand. Trace buffs - defend your realm. Thanks in advance. Sparky.

P.S. I play a Fender Jazz right now but pretty soon will be the proud owner of a lovely P-bass also. My band plays rock music.

present: [attachment=4126:DSC00106.JPG]

which one? [attachment=4127:hartke_210_25stack.jpg] or [attachment=4128:TE_2103H_Stack.jpg] ???

i know what you're thinking and yes, i Do have too much time on my hands at work! Haha - Eek!

[ped]

I used to gig with a Hartke 3500 with a 410xl and a 210xl and it was just superb - quite often I used just the 210 by my side on stage as a monitor. I have never tried the Trace 210 you have but it might be harder to find one to match. Price wise the Hartke 210s are excellent value and weigh very little. You could even get a 410 if you think you can justify it!

Personally I liked the clean and transparent response from the Hartke cabs....

[Sparky]

[quote name='ped' post='104202' date='Dec 14 2007, 09:49 AM']I used to gig with a Hartke 3500 with a 410xl and a 210xl and it was just superb - quite often I used just the 210 by my side on stage as a monitor. I have never tried the Trace 210 you have but it might be harder to find one to match. Price wise the Hartke 210s are excellent value and weigh very little. You could even get a 410 if you think you can justify it!

Personally I liked the clean and transparent response from the Hartke cabs....[/quote]

Thanks Ped - wise words - although I'm not sure I'd use the phrase 'weigh very little' in the same sentance as Hartke XL - IMO the whole range are fairly 'solid'! I was surprised when I picked up the 210XL at its weight considering it's small dimensions! It's heavy! Mind you, my old cab was a heavy as a pregnant cow! - Re. getting a 4x10 - I've just sold a 4.5XL cause I couldn't get it up my stairs!!! - hence the move to two 2x10's... The 2x10 Trace is pretty heavy too but still more portable than a 4x10 - as long as I can physically get it up the stairs, I don't mind a short lug.

Thanks again Ped - Roll up folks - that's one for more for Hartke XL's!

[ped]

I suppose I am used to heavier things! I used to find the 210 quite a comfortable lift as it had decent handles too. In fact I used to carry the 410 by myself too, but then again I have just had a disk in my back removed!!

2x210s is a good plan definitely. I was a little bit put off initially by the 200w(IIRC) rating of the cabs but I never heard my 210 distort or bottom out once - it really was lovely!

The 2.5xl looks nice too, though I have never tried one. I remember it being a fair bit heavier from the spec sheet but 'in the field' it is probably more than hackable.

Cheers
ped

[Merton]

At the risk of annoying you, why not keep the set up you have, as you have a nice mix of "bright" and "round"?

I'd personally go with the Trace cabs coz I find Hartke cabs a bit harsh.

[Sparky]

[quote name='Merton' post='104244' date='Dec 14 2007, 11:45 AM']At the risk of annoying you, why not keep the set up you have, as you have a nice mix of "bright" and "round"?

I'd personally go with the Trace cabs coz I find Hartke cabs a bit harsh.[/quote]
YES Merton! Controversial! I'd like to hear other people's opinions re. mixing cabs. Is it common to do this? Pros, cons? Both current 2x10's are rated at same power & impedance.

Merton, you haven't annoyed me,.. although you may have angered the little red GAS Devil sat on my left shoulder! I'm sure we can strike a deal in another area!...guess if i sold my soul i could complete Both rigs!

[Merton]

[quote name='Sparky' post='104253' date='Dec 14 2007, 12:14 PM']YES Merton! Controversial! I'd like to hear other people's opinions re. mixing cabs. Is it common to do this? Pros, cons? Both current 2x10's are rated at same power & impedance.

Merton, you haven't annoyed me,.. although you may have angered the little red GAS Devil sat on my left shoulder! I'm sure we can strike a deal in another area!...guess if i sold my soul i could complete Both rigs! [/quote]
I used to run and Asdhown MAG 4x10 with the Trace 1x15 cab, it was immense. Never had a problem.

As for the little farty Man U fan on your left shoulder, bah! Give in to the pressure and buy 2 more cabs and a Trace head, it's fun buying things!

[cheddatom]

I was going to say - Why do they all need to be the same brand? If you like the sound of trace cabs through your hartke head, why would you then consider getting a trace head?

It seems to me that you already have a great rig that you like. What's the problem, other than it looking a bit weird?

[Machines]

I personally couldn't stand to not have matching brand head/cab. I know it makes sod all difference other than cosmetically...

[cheddatom]

Heh, are you the kind of guy that would pay over the odds for some jeans or a shirt or some aftershave with the right label?

I personally don't care how my rig looks, I just want it to sound good.

[Machines]

On the contrary - I don't do designer labels at all.

[cheddatom]

So it's not about the lable, it's just about the look of it? Weird. I suppose I take aesthetics into account when I buy a bass, so, fair enough!

[Sparky]

Cheddatom, Machine and BeLow, thank you for your responses. Food for thought although the thread is heading in an unexpected direction. I didn't intend for asthetics to become and issue when submitting my original post. I don't have a problem with how the rig looks - in fact, I quite like the 'frankenstein' facade (the trace was already de-badged when i bought it by the way). I do not need help from my backline to make me look good - I'd look great whatever amp I was using! Haha

The reason I'm asking for your opinions is just to get a better idea of the pros & cons of a Trace rig vs. Hartke. I've played through my HA3500 and a 4.5XL for the best part of 8 years and have always been very happy with the rig's sound and power. My initial reason for changing my setup was purely logistical - after years of it not being a problem, I found myself with nowhere to keep my rig and therefore needed to change the big 4.5 cab for something more portable - two 2x10's. ...and so the story begins... Because I've always been happy with my rig, I've never shown an interest in changing it; therefore I have very little knowledge of what's good, what's bad, what's dear, what's cheap and most important of all, what I like and what I don't! ...but now I HAVE to change it, and a new found enthusiasm (thanks to basschat) and exposure to a wealth of 2nd hand equipment I never knew existed, I've found myself in the market for a new, different rig. As other people have pointed out to me in previous posts, if I change my rig, it won't necessarily be better, just different. I understand that, but I AM up for a change - I just figure I'd start a thread asking what people thought - I'm interested to know.

Seriously though - it's not about the looks. I WILL inevitably be sticking with the frankenstein rig for a while but at some point, I probably will want to change to a coherent pair of cabs. The mismatch was only ever meant to be a temporary solution - needed to get rid of my 4.5 quickly but also needed to retain four 10" cones for gigs. Both the 2x10's came up for £100 a pop so I went for it. It's serving me fine for the moment but it just doesn't seem right - guess it might be all in my mind? The rig sounds good, but I can't help thinking that two cabinets designed, engineered and manufactured to work as part of the same range will perform better than a mismatch of two different brands??? any thoughts??? let's get back to sound and performance!

cheers, sparky.

[TheRev]

[quote name='ped' post='104202' date='Dec 14 2007, 09:49 AM']I used to gig with a Hartke 3500 with a 410xl and a 210xl and it was just superb - quite often I used just the 210 by my side on stage as a monitor.[/quote]

This [i]is[/i] your old 210xl Ped, I sold it to Sparky a few weeks ago!

I'm with Merton on this one - if you like the sound and it fill your criteria portability wise, why change things?

[ped]

[quote name='TheRev' post='104361' date='Dec 14 2007, 04:14 PM']This [i]is[/i] your old 210xl Ped, I sold it to Sparky a few weeks ago!

I'm with Merton on this one - if you like the sound and it fill your criteria portability wise, why change things?[/quote]

Really!! Wow that's funny. I had some good times with that cab. Used it at most of the gigs we did at Uni. What a little belter.

[cheddatom]

I realise that you feel like you need a change, but in your first post, you say "I've tried both cabs separately and find the Hartke brighter and more responsive, but the Trace rounder and warmer." which made me think "he has the perfect rig, what's he want to change for?"

I can't really offer any advice, just interested in the subject matter.

[Sparky]

I can't believe all you guys are pissing on my GAS bonfire!

...but fair enough - I'm actually starting to come round to the idea of putting any swaps or purchases on hold... for now!! haha! eek! I'll work with the frankenstein rig for a while - continune to tweak settings, e.q etc. and also test it with my new bass when i pick it up at christmas. i'm sure that'll put things into a different light anyhow... thanks everyone!

p.s. one thing ped, did it irritate you at all that the 3500 amp hangs off the back of the 210 by a good few inches?? it's stable enough so it doesn't Really matter... but still - just niggles a bit!

[ped]

It used to a little yes - my 3500 was racked in a carpeted box too so it hung over a lot - but I started to put the 210 upright next to the 410 so I had a sort of '610 on its side' arrangement and all was well!

I think you are right to experiment with the rig - keep us up to date!
ped

[tempo]

Personally, I would get a hartke 2.5xl (as i already have). This should give you a very similar sound to the 4.5xl in conjunction with the 210xl. with the benefit of portability to boot. IMO the Hartke 2.5 & 4.5 are easily the best sounding cabs on the market in their price range. The issues people have with them seems to be their weight, (they are heavy, and hartke have addressed this with new neo speakers) and some people say they sound a bit harsh, which i believe is because people dont take into account the midrange V horn tweeter difference when setting EQ.

[Sparky]

[quote name='ped' post='104390' date='Dec 14 2007, 04:56 PM']I think you are right to experiment with the rig - keep us up to date!
ped[/quote]

YEH Ped! GAS GAS GAS GAS GAS GAS!!!!!!!! broke.

[bassbluestew]

I use the house rig at the Jamhouse in Edinburgh quite a lot, it's a Hartke rig ( 200 watt head and a I THINK Trasporter ??? cabs - a 1x15 and a 2x10 )

Now I own an old, old Trace rig which I bought from a very nice chap on here, its an old AH200 a 2x10 ( 2103 ) and 1x15, sorry the model numbers have worn off the back, it is 17 years old. This rig also cost me less than the Hartke head would, and I subsequently sold my MesaBoogie 400+ and Ashdown ABM810 which the Trace rig was supposed to be a backup for !!

Anyhow, I MUCH prefer the Trace sound as I find it much punchier and more articulate and a lot more bottom end ( I play 5'ers ).

Both these rigs are very similerr spec wise I think, but to me ( and to be fair, my band mates also ) the Trace just sounds awesome in comparison.

Break into the piggy bank and get an old Trace 1x15 and and old Mark 6 head like mine - you'll love it. There are some Trace bargains out there at the mo'.

S