Jazz

[jasethebass]

I understand that to play Jazz well takes a lot of musicianship but everytime I hear an album or see a jazz gig it just leaves me cold. Ive been playing bass for 22 years, all genres all styles but I just dont get it! Im not askin for negatives about jazz, I just need help to hear what everyone else hears from jazz. As Ive said no "Jazz Haters" comments just help me understand. Thanks. J

[gary mac]

You're a brave man.

If I wasn't such a wimp, I would have to say I concur.

Right I'm off to the for sale section

[allighatt0r]

Listen to Miles Davis - So What and tell me you still don't like Jazz

[Pete Academy]

I have nothing against jazz but, for me, it has to have funk included.

[ahpook]

i hope you're wearing flame-proof jazz pants...





but if you don't like it, you don't like it. liking everything means you have no taste

Edited August 21, 2010 by ahpook

[Bloodaxe]

Depends on your definition of "Jazz" I guess - it's a [i]very[/i] broad genre.

I cannot stand/understand the Free/Hard side of jazz (Ornette Coleman, Charlie Parker etc.), & the Smooth/Dinner end of things (Stan Getz etc) bores me to tears.

What I [i]do[/i] go for, however, is some of the middle ground. Take a punt at Cannonball Adderley, early Miles Davis (Kind of Blue etc), Jimmy Smith, Dave Brubeck, Oscar Peterson, Duke Ellington & so forth. Some of the Scandinavian stuff is worth a go too - Nils Petter Molvaer & the awesomely named Nils Henning Oersted Pedersen (usually abbreviated to NHOP). Very few of these would qualify as "Jazz Club" contenders.

If Funk is an essential component, Maceo Parker is right up there. 1/3 of the JB Horns (the other two are Fred Wesley & Pee-Wee Ellis).

If your local library is any good, dip into their CD racks - it's a good cheap way of finding new things to listen to.

Pete.

[Rayman]

Bilbo??

[derrenleepoole]

[quote name='jasethebass' post='932092' date='Aug 21 2010, 06:20 PM']I understand that to play Jazz well takes a lot of musicianship but everytime I hear an album or see a jazz gig it just leaves me cold. Ive been playing bass for 22 years, all genres all styles but I just dont get it! Im not askin for negatives about jazz, I just need help to hear what everyone else hears from jazz. As Ive said no "Jazz Haters" comments just help me understand. Thanks. J [/quote]

Just out of curiosity, what music do you like or aspire towards as a musician? 'Jazz' is a loaded term, and as a 'genre' is incredibly diverse. I bet I could name a few groups and acts that you'd love that come under the banner jazz, but to other peoples ears might be more akin to rock etc!

Edited August 21, 2010 by derrenleepoole

[RichF]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='932122' date='Aug 21 2010, 06:57 PM']Depends on your definition of "Jazz" I guess - it's a [i]very[/i] broad genre.

I cannot stand/understand the Free/Hard side of jazz (Ornette Coleman, Charlie Parker etc.), & the Smooth/Dinner end of things (Stan Getz etc) bores me to tears.

What I [i]do[/i] go for, however, is some of the middle ground. Take a punt at Cannonball Adderley, early Miles Davis (Kind of Blue etc), Jimmy Smith, Dave Brubeck, Oscar Peterson, Duke Ellington & so forth. Some of the Scandinavian stuff is worth a go too - Nils Petter Molvaer & the awesomely named Nils Henning Oersted Pedersen (usually abbreviated to NHOP). Very few of these would qualify as "Jazz Club" contenders.

If Funk is an essential component, Maceo Parker is right up there. 1/3 of the JB Horns (the other two are Fred Wesley & Pee-Wee Ellis).

If your local library is any good, dip into their CD racks - it's a good cheap way of finding new things to listen to.

Pete.[/quote]

Apart from not really knowing about the Scandanavian references, I think this is really good advice. The middle ground in jazz as described above is full of some geniuses and masterpieces. Check them out.

[Cat Burrito]

I think you have to tread carefully with "I don't get... a genre" type posts. Being keen on country music, it's an easy one for people to riducle & reduce to the same tired stereotypes, thus only serving to highlight their own ignorance. Ultimately genres are wide - take rock bands; I doubt many death metal fans like the 80s poodle perm stuff but in the eyes of my dear old Gran, it was all the same. Equally there's a huge difference between Johnny Cash & Taylor Swift.

Personally speaking, my Dad was a pro drummer in the 60s and Jazz is his main love. He's tried with me & the irony is all my musical tastes come from my Mum. About 10yrs ago I finally "got" Jimmy Smith's "The Cat" LP. I've also enjoyed a great night at The Jazz Cafe in New York. If you asked me if I liked Jazz, I'd probably lean towards no. I have the upmost respect for Jazz players though - remember the roots of the Motown house band? Also jazz creeps into all sorts of places - listen to early Alice Cooper. I'm sure the jazz purists would laugh but it's one genre nodding to another.

I always hated old English folk until I was invited to get up at a gig & play along. I could see the punk crossover that had eluded me in my youth. Great fun. Music is so vast, I never say never.

[Gunsfreddy2003]

+ 1 big time!

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='932097' date='Aug 21 2010, 06:29 PM']I have nothing against jazz but, for me, it has to have funk included.[/quote]

[thisnameistaken]

I think I mostly like jazz. I don't like the '80s stuff where it was all synths and electric guitars and knitting machine sweaters with Kandinsky / Cosby Show patterns on, that sounds sh*te, but when it's a bunch of Black Panther look-a-likes flying through a dozen chord changes a bar it's just plain exciting to listen to. That's all there is to "get" about it, to me.

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='932138' date='Aug 21 2010, 07:17 PM']Personally speaking, my Dad was a pro drummer in the 60s and Jazz is his main love. He's tried with me & the irony is all my musical tastes come from my Mum.[/quote]

Same here, my mum's favourite stuff is the big band swing sound so I grew up listening to a lot of Tommy Dorsey and Duke Ellington and Ted Heath and Glenn Miller. Funnily enough I even took up trombone casually, I've still got one on a stand behind me but I rarely play it, I was never any good.

Edited August 21, 2010 by thisnameistaken

[SteveO]

Dont feel you *have to* or *should* like jazz to be a better musician, its just a genre. The people that are really *into* it (myself included) would encourage you to delve deeper, because it can be very rewarding to listen to and play, but then again if you start a discussion showing a vague interest in hyper-speed-death-thrash-black-metal then I'm sure someone will be deeply into it and encourage you to pick out the melodies and harmonies amongst the seemingly random mess of notes (as it appears to this 'outsider')

If you want to give yourself a good chance at *getting into* jazz then give the suggestions on Bloodaxe's list a go. listen to Mils Davis, Cannonball Adderly et at and if you don't like it then move on. There's no shame in not liking it, and at least you'll [i]know[/i] you don't like it, and not be still wondering if there is something you are missing.

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='932166' date='Aug 21 2010, 07:46 PM']I think I mostly like jazz. I don't like the '80s stuff where it was all synths and electric guitars and knitting machine sweaters with Kandinsky / Cosby Show patterns on, that sounds sh*te, but when it's a bunch of Black Panther look-a-likes flying through a dozen chord changes a bar it's just plain exciting to listen to. That's all there is to "get" about it, to me.[/quote]
That's about as good a summary as I've heard. I like having that "How'd he do that?!?!" moment when listening to music and jazz is good for that.


[quote name='SteveO' post='932183' date='Aug 21 2010, 07:57 PM']Dont feel you *have to* or *should* like jazz to be a better musician, its just a genre. The people that are really *into* it (myself included) would encourage you to delve deeper, because it can be very rewarding to listen to and play, but then again if you start a discussion showing a vague interest in hyper-speed-death-thrash-black-metal then I'm sure someone will be deeply into it and encourage you to pick out the melodies and harmonies amongst the seemingly random mess of notes (as it appears to this 'outsider')[/quote]
Absolutely! Melodic death-black-thrash-hyper-speed-core metal FTW.

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='932241' date='Aug 21 2010, 08:46 PM']That's about as good a summary as I've heard. I like having that "How'd he do that?!?!" moment when listening to music and jazz is good for that.



Absolutely! Melodic death-black-thrash-hyper-speed-core metal FTW.[/quote]

When people talk about Jazz it seems to traverse the whole range from ghastly saxophone heavy elevator trash to completely unlistenable experimental stuff. Actually *most* genre's of music are like that I've yet to find any "Jazz" that I particularly like to listen to, but I don't like to exclude the possibility.

[gjones]

Listen to this and it will convert you instantly [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuf-U1SDuWw&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuf-U1SDuWw...feature=related[/url]

[XB26354]

So.. [i]don't[/i] get it. What's the problem? Who says you have to "get" it? I like jazz a lot, other people (quite a lot of people as it turns out) don't like it at all. That's life.

[Delberthot]

I used to play in a band that played the king of the jazz genre - Dixieland

As far as I am concerned, the Dixieland Jazz sound is the best Jazz.

Coming from playing in a big band where the dots were written in stone to having the chords written out was like a roaming dog having it's lead removed

[grumble]

Over the years Jazz has been adept at adapting and incorporating different musical ideas as they came along. This has resulted in a wide range of music that can legitimately called Jazz. Not all this is going to appeal to everyone but its still Jazz.
Try this for an example of what is referred to as 'Nu-Jazz'. I love this band, they mix all the right ingredients for me.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-rZdfZfMPw"]The Cinematic Orchestra[/url]

[solofunkyjazz]

What's there to 'get' ?

It's music the same as thrash metal, funk, blues and any other genre you care to name.

Why do people post threads about not getting jazz ? You never see threads about not getting blues, or thrash or punk. Jazz is far more accessible than thrash death metal or whatever.

[Doddy]

I'm a big fan of the Jazz music,everything from Big Bands to the modern electric stuff(with the exception of trad). I'd always heard the Big Band stuff(Buddy Rich,Basie,Maynard Ferguson etc.),and got into the more 'fusion' side via albums by people like Weather Report and Billy Cobham,but it took me longer to dig the standards. It wasn't until I started to go to a regular jazz gig(where I later took over the bass chair) that I really started to get into them.
I love the whole feel of listening to a great drummer swing like crazy,while the bass player walks. I love listening to the players blow through the changes and come up with new ideas on the spot. I love the melodies that define the piece. For me,there is just so much substance in the music,and I love to play it even more.

[Bilbo]

Listen in the moment. You may not understand this but, when people listen to music, they unconsciously try to predict where it is going to go. If it goes where we expect, it feels like release (resolution of a dominant chord to its rejlative major etc). If it doesn't go where we expect, it creates tension until it DOES go where we expect. If jazz is always going where you don't expect, it will confuse you because you are unconciously trying to hear the resolutions.

Try listening to some jazz 'in the moment', they way you would a conversation. Try something not too demanding. Freddie Freeloader off Miles Davis' Kind Of Blue is a simple place to start. Listen to the way the piano and horns interact. Listen to the walking bass lines and the way they lead you through the harmony. Listen to the relationship between the horn player and the drummers choices. The jazz is in the interaction not in the melodies played alone.

Its the sound of surprise.

[tino]

[quote name='jasethebass' post='932092' date='Aug 21 2010, 06:20 PM']I understand that to play Jazz well takes a lot of musicianship but everytime I hear an album or see a jazz gig it just leaves me cold. Ive been playing bass for 22 years, all genres all styles but I just dont get it! Im not askin for negatives about jazz, I just need help to hear what everyone else hears from jazz. As Ive said no "Jazz Haters" comments just help me understand. Thanks. J [/quote]
No one gets jazz..................it either grabs you or passes you by....
Im a lover of jazz...................but cant competently play with it.....I think I may have bumped into it as it passed by.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='932138' date='Aug 21 2010, 07:17 PM']I think you have to tread carefully with "I don't get... a genre" type posts.[/quote]

I dont see whats wrong with this,The OP clearly said that he does not know how to get into it and was looking for suggestions etc.He did not say "why is Jazz so rubbish everyone playing there own tune at a different time".
Thats the idea of a forum surely?If the thread is just to annoy people and antagonise them (And im in the stingrays are crap firing line most of the time!)then I agree you should tread carefully but in this case im with the OP.

Skee bap, Diddly bap bap!!

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='gjones' post='932354' date='Aug 21 2010, 11:49 PM']Listen to this and it will convert you instantly [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuf-U1SDuWw&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuf-U1SDuWw...feature=related[/url][/quote]
The trouble I have with this clip is that it's more likely to convert me to The Quo!* I'll have to assume that there's a structure/connection linking the pianist & drummer, but I'm damned if I know what it is & [u][i]to me[/i][/u] it [i]does[/i] sound as though they're off on tangents and soloing without any regard for each other.

This, on the other hand...



Nice extension on a II-V-I:



And Now For Something Completely Ambient:




Pete.

*[size=1]Not that I need converting, Teh Qou are awesome[/size]