Susceptible Neck

[mcgraham]

Hi there,

The neck on my main bass seems to need a truss rod adjustment maybe once every one or two months, although that's the average, sometimes in weird weather I've adjusted it up to 6 times in a month. I'm not sure if anything can be done or if that is perhaps normal in response to changing weather throughout the year, or at least on the 'needs more adjustment' end of the spectrum. Points to note, I like my action lower than most, and I like my board only fractionally away from zero relief; it also has a paper/card shim that has been in since I received the bass. It doesn't help that I need to take the neck off to adjust the rod either.

Any thoughts or experience on how best to deal with this?

Mark

[GreeneKing]

Probably not much use but you could try to live with a slightly higher action and then you may have a lot less hassle.

Can't think of anything else that'd help to be honest.

[mcgraham]

[quote]Probably not much use but you could try to live with a slightly higher action and then you may have a lot less hassle.[/quote]

It's not so much rattles or it being too high that's the problem, it's the change in feel that results in the shift. But either way, I like my setup the way it is.

Mark

[mybass]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='105062' date='Dec 16 2007, 09:25 PM']Hi there,

The neck on my main bass seems to need a truss rod adjustment maybe once every one or two months, although that's the average, sometimes in weird weather I've adjusted it up to 6 times in a month. I'm not sure if anything can be done or if that is perhaps normal in response to changing weather throughout the year, or at least on the 'needs more adjustment' end of the spectrum. Points to note, I like my action lower than most, and I like my board only fractionally away from zero relief; it also has a paper/card shim that has been in since I received the bass. It doesn't help that I need to take the neck off to adjust the rod either.

Any thoughts or experience on how best to deal with this?

Mark[/quote]
Sounds a bit drastic all that adjustments per month stuff. I would check it into a repairer for analysis.

[Wil]

Sounds like a perfect candidate for a Status Graphite neck, I reckon!

[mcgraham]

Sorry guys, realised I was somewhat vague. It's a Geddy Lee, I always put the shifting down to the thinness of the neck, and whilst the sound is my sound, I need to address a few issues it has to make it what it needs to be.

A Status neck does tempt me very much so, but I'm unsure as to how radical the tone change would be, also I love the look and feel of the original neck, so I'd perhaps need to get a Warmoth one or similar.

Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated!

Mark

[Kiwi]

You could get a new fingerboard put on it. Get the luthier to install graphite stiffening rods and ask him to make sure the fingerboard is from something very dense and stiff.

[King Tut]

I think you're asking too much from the bass mate - if you love that particular bass - being realistic - you prob need to get a higher action. Can you be specific and give us an idea of the measurement between the bottom of the string and the top of the fret at - say - the 12th and 15th fret?

[mcgraham]

Unfretted it's a hair above 1.5mm at the 12th fret, a hair under at the 15th.

I've had it this way for 3 or 4 years now, it's susceptibility to 'moving' it's one of the few things I would want to change about it. I appreciate such fine tolerances make it difficult for anything but the necks of finest construction to get that flat and stay there, and the shifts I'm talking about are only of the order of 0.5-1mm, nothing serious, but I notice.

Mark

[Paul Cooke]

get a humidifier and make sure the room you keep and play it in has a stable temperature & humidity...

If you're taking it out to gigs, then you'll have to live with a higher action if you don't want the hassle of taking the neck off to set it up several times a month... that, or shell out and get the neck modified with stiffeners as suggested earlier.

[mcgraham]

Thanks for the help people, I think that if I decide to anything about it, I'll go down the replacement neck route. Don't fancy having someone cut into a neck if I could get a replacement one for the same price and have the choice of the two.

Mark

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='105106' date='Dec 16 2007, 11:02 PM']You could get a new fingerboard put on it. Get the luthier to install graphite stiffening rods and ask him to make sure the fingerboard is from something very dense and stiff.[/quote]

+1 to graphite reinforcement. Not for nothing are many slim necks so strengthened.
As for fretboards; Ebony. Or a Phenolic/ Ebanol item.
Both my basses with Phenolic resin 'boards have never needed adjusting at all. And they hold tune really well.
Hold on...
I can't adjust the Vigier because it doesn't have a truss-rod. It's one of the reasons I bought it!

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='105206' date='Dec 17 2007, 09:29 AM']+1 to graphite reinforcement. Not for nothing are many slim necks so strengthened.
As for fretboards; Ebony. Or a Phenolic/ Ebanol item.[/quote]
Even a particularly dense and stiff piece of rock maple would probably do the trick.

[Mokl]

How old is the bass? I run my action very low and like very little relief, just as you do. I've found that with some basses I've had to tweak the rod a lot (sometimes more than once a week), but they have nearly always settled down after a year or so. I used to have to adjust my Stingray all the time, but now I have to do it only a couple of times a year, if that.

[mcgraham]

I've had it for 3-4 years, and you're right, it did require a lot more tweaking in the beginning. However as the seasons move from one to the other, it needs adjusting. Particularly around now (about twice in November and once last night), will happen again in Jan/Feb transition then again around May time, again during mid summer and possibly again come September time.

I'm just not sure how comfortable I feel about having the neck hacked open for a new fingerboard and/or reinforcement, even by a pro. Has anyone here had such a thing done? If so how did it turn out and how much did it run?

Mark

[Toasted]

It'll probably cost more than the bass is worth.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Fretboard replacements should be bread and butter stuff to most luthiers.
Heavy fretless players wear out their fingerboards and need them replaced...
Not to mention de-frets, re-frets, LED work and so on.

As an aside, I checked the string height on my Squier 70s VMJazz. Both E and G sit about 2.5mm above the 12th, a little under at the 15th, but about 1mm at the 1st.
Looks like I run a fair bit of relief on that instrument. I'm using .045, .065, .080, .100 DR Marcus Miller Fat Beams, and have fitted a BadAss II.

I've never had to tweak the rod outside of its original set-up, but this does allow more movement without buzzing etc.

[King Tut]

I think 1.5 mm at the 12th is EXTREMELY low - I couldn't possibly run an action that low - I'd be clanking all over the shop - maybe that's bad technique on my part - most of my basses are 2 - 3 mm. I'm not surprised you have to keep tweaking!

Good luck though matey!

[mcgraham]

[quote]I think 1.5 mm at the 12th is EXTREMELY low - I couldn't possibly run an action that low - I'd be clanking all over the shop - maybe that's bad technique on my part - most of my basses are 2 - 3 mm. I'm not surprised you have to keep tweaking![/quote]

The Smith I just sold was even lower, no buzzes anywhere, even flatter board. A well constructed instrument, a good consistent setup and a playing style that fits that setup should yield no problems. (IME)

I implemented the lesson inherent in zero frets, in that the nut should be as if you've fretted an imaginary fret lower than your 1st. So with a next to flat board, and the nut like that, it means that there's no discernable change in the string height above the 12th fret or 15th fret when you fret the 1st fret. It's a setup style I've adopted on any other basses I've owned or setup, it does work and it keeps a more consistent feel across the neck.

I'd argue that the way I have my bass is not at all responsible for how [u]often[/u] it shifts, but I do acknowledge that it means when it does adjust/shift by even a fraction from my preferred action, I [u]notice how much[/u] it shifts, just due to the tolerance needed for such a setup.

I'll maybe drop Shuker a line come 2008 (darn Christmas!) and ask what he reckons would be a good approach.

To be honest, this doesn't bother me excessively, but in anyone's search for an instrument that works for them and suits them perfectly, the smaller things start to matter as you get closer.

Mark

Edited December 17, 2007 by mcgraham

[SJA]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='105242' date='Dec 17 2007, 10:45 AM']I'm just not sure how comfortable I feel about having the neck hacked open for a new fingerboard and/or reinforcement, even by a pro. Has anyone here had such a thing done? If so how did it turn out and how much did it run?[/quote]

I had graphite rods put in the neck of a Fender Precision Plus (rosewood board), and an ebony fretboard put on, by Martin Petersen at the Gallery back in '96.
the mod cost £250.
the neck's a bit more stable (it's pretty slim), and there's a bit more sustain, but I don't really think it was worth it. a learning experience for me.

in your case, i wouldn't recommend it, as your Geddy Lee has a one piece maple neck, and planing it down so rods can be put in, and a new fretboard put on top would be pretty drastic.

a new neck- Warmoth, Status graphite IMO would be a better bet.
plus you've always got the original spec neck to put back on if you want to sell it.

[mcgraham]

Thanks for the input SJA. That's what I thought would be the case, for that drastic a surgery I may as well get a new neck. I'm starting to desire a slightly thicker neck back to front as well.

Time to start searching for input and clips of Status necks methinks!

Mark

[martthebass]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='105089' date='Dec 16 2007, 10:20 PM']A Status neck does tempt me very much so, but I'm unsure as to how radical the tone change would be, also I love the look and feel of the original neck, so I'd perhaps need to get a Warmoth one or similar.

Mark[/quote]

Couple of years back I changed the stock neck on my MIM Jazz fretless for a Status Graphite fretless. Very stable and could handle the small relief much better - didn't move at all in the year or so that I had it. The tone did change a bit - bit more trebly even with flats but not un-nice. One thing I would suggest if you went down this route is having it fitted at Status. I was lucky and had two MIM Jazzes - it only fitted one of them! I would have had to do some pocket work on one of them (plus a shim) as it wanted to fit at a slight angle. It was perfect in the 2001, not in the 1996.

[vegas_hooker]

I was going to post about this since im currently fighting my Pbass to get as close to 'right' as possible..

So thanks for bringing it up.

[mcgraham]

[quote]Couple of years back I changed the stock neck on my MIM Jazz fretless for a Status Graphite fretless. Very stable and could handle the small relief much better - didn't move at all in the year or so that I had it. The tone did change a bit - bit more trebly even with flats but not un-nice. One thing I would suggest if you went down this route is having it fitted at Status. I was lucky and had two MIM Jazzes - it only fitted one of them! I would have had to do some pocket work on one of them (plus a shim) as it wanted to fit at a slight angle. It was perfect in the 2001, not in the 1996.[/quote]

Thanks for the input, I would get Rob Green to do it for sure, makes my life a heckuva lot easier. Also he seems to do them with block inlays as a 30 quid upcharge, so may be able to keep a somewhat similar look. Did you find the tone changed markedly or not so much? I wouldn't mind a bit more treble in the sound, as the pups I've got in are very dark and meaty, would be nice to have more of the tonal spectrum to play with.

[quote]I was going to post about this since im currently fighting my Pbass to get as close to 'right' as possible..

So thanks for bringing it up.[/quote]

No worries. My problem isn't getting it there, it's [i][u]keeping[/u][/i] it there.

If anyone has any input on Status replacements whether they liked or even better if they disliked the result that'd be great (just to get a balanced input)

Mark

Edited December 18, 2007 by mcgraham

[Wil]

Put it this way, my "go to" bass is now an Encore with a Status neck. It feels and responds so much better than my US Jazz. It seemed to open up more midrange, the bass has more thump. If anything it sounds more organic than the previous neck, but it was an Encore neck at the end of the day!