Do I change my Schroeder 1212?

[slazman]

Having gigged my Schroeder 1212L a couple of times now I have mixed feelings.

It is a great cab but probably does not suit my needs in terms of output - the places we mostly play are too small for it - I know I can turn my LMII down a bit but the cabinet does tend to boom a bit even at low volume.

The other issue is that it is way too big for practice so I have to continue to use my bass cube, so I am doubling up.

It does however suit my needs in terms of portability as I only have the back seat of a 4 door saloon car for transport (totally impractical but this was not an issue when I bought the car!).

I am wondering if getting two 12"/15" cabinets would be a better solution for me. For practice and small gigs (pubs) I could use the one cabinet with the other available for larger venues.

Any advice or personal experience of similar situations would be most appreciated. Particularly looking at what I might go for?

I am aware that the LMII only has the one speaker output so two cabinets would need to be connected in series

[Wil]

When I owned a 1212L, I found it sounded best when pushed, so it does sound to me like maybe you need something a bit less full on. Maybe a single Aguilar GS112 with the option of adding another if you need more volume at any point?

Bear in mind the 1212L has quite a mid range "hump" though (apparently) which explains why it sits so well in a loud band mix, but if things are quieter the low mids can dominate a bit. Have you tried using the VPF filter on the markbass?

Edited August 22, 2010 by Wil

[JMT3781]

theres a pair of aguilar 12's on ebay at the moment..

i thought the lm2 had two outputs? the combo heads do, one jack and one speakon

[ezbass]

I only own a 1212L & LMII rig now and take it rehearsals too, where as much as I'd like a 1x12 for even easier portability, it's not really a major issue. I've only found it boomy at a couple of venues where the acoustics were less than ideal, normally it's just dandy with its low mid voicing, still the best sounding cab I've had for both on stage and FOH sound. Your LMII has 2 speaker outputs BTW, a speakon/jack combined output and a normal jack, so you're good to go if you decide to go for 2 12" cabs.

[JTUK]

I use 2 GS112's and for a loudish band you do need two.
And also, the 2 combined work SO much better than one but will cover a lot of gigs.

If I were thinking about 12" options, then my first 3
on my list would be
Aguilar GS112 or DB112
Berg AE112

in no particular order. and always in prs...

Also, would check out Epifani, altho, personally they are too pillowy for me.

[chris_b]

[quote name='JTUK' post='932760' date='Aug 22 2010, 01:55 PM']....If I were thinking about 12" options, then my first 3
on my list would be
Aguilar GS112 or DB112
Berg AE112

in no particular order. and always in prs....[/quote]
My top 3 as well. I'd also try Rowbee's Compact if the trade ever changes into a sale.

[slazman]

Thanks for the feedback ... my mistake on the LMII ... just looked at the manual for the first time!

I had been thinking about the Aguilar's as it seems a popular option. May need to start thinking about trading up.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='slazman' post='932723' date='Aug 22 2010, 01:18 PM']but the cabinet does tend to boom a bit even at low volume.[/quote]

Have you had a listen to your rig from out in the audience?

I ask because i find the tone i have when standing in front of my 1212L isnt the same as the audience hear. At sound checks i tend to wander around the room (with a radio system and no PA support) and i find my tone is a bit smother and less boomy out front.

[warwickhunt]

Just another perspective.

I own a pair of DB12's which I take as a pair to every gig and they sound phenomenal. However, due to the fact that I always take the 2 cabs out to 'every' gig (the sum of the two parts is much better than the whole) I do find myself hankering for a one box option and have seriously considered getting the 1212L on more than one occasion (the DB2x12 is just too big and heavy a single lift)... just petrified of losing that quality Aguilar DB tone!

The grass is not always greener.

[slazman]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='933337' date='Aug 23 2010, 08:58 AM']Just another perspective.

I own a pair of DB12's which I take as a pair to every gig and they sound phenomenal. However, due to the fact that I always take the 2 cabs out to 'every' gig (the sum of the two parts is much better than the whole) I do find myself hankering for a one box option and have seriously considered getting the 1212L on more than one occasion (the DB2x12 is just too big and heavy a single lift)... just petrified of losing that quality Aguilar DB tone!

The grass is not always greener. [/quote]

No easy answer then!

[dave_bass5]

I must admit the one reason i got a SA450 was for the extra EQ options. I already had a 1210R cab and these do have quite a middy tone so i wanted something that would let me reduce it a bit.
I did find that using the VPF seems to work really well at controlling the mids, plus it boosts the low end and, to my ears, makes the overall tone a bit deeper but smoother, with less boom.

Edited August 23, 2010 by dave_bass5

[slazman]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='933575' date='Aug 23 2010, 01:04 PM']I did find that using the VCF seems to work really well at controlling the mids, plus it boosts the low end and, to my ears, makes the overall tone a bit deeper but smoother, with less boom.[/quote]

I will try this ... thanks for the tip

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='slazman' post='933603' date='Aug 23 2010, 01:18 PM']I will try this ... thanks for the tip[/quote]

Yeah, worth a try.
Its actually called a VPF, no idea why i put VCF (i used to play synth so mabe thats why) but im sure you know what im on about.

[BB2000]

A pair of EA Wizzy's are worth a shot. I've had a Wizzy and an MLine for years and don't see me changing anytime soon. Compared to most cabs out there they have a pretty even frequency response. I've tried Schroeder and Aguilar, and they are both much too coloured for my liking. I prefer to start with a fairly even response and then dial in the eq I need.

Note that most cabs have a pair of connectors, allowing you to connect them in parallel (not series) so one output connector on the head is usually adequate.

[algmusic]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='933608' date='Aug 23 2010, 01:21 PM']Yeah, worth a try.
Its actually called a VPF, no idea why i put VCF (i used to play synth so mabe thats why) but im sure you know what im on about.[/quote]


The Markbass Heads are one of the most verstilte heads out there, i think.. the filters work very well..

I always say two cabs is more practical than one big cab, if you do a mixture of gigs. I have 2x10 for small gigs and add the 1x15 for big..

I'm very tempted by getting two Aguilar 1x12 cabs.. EVERYONE keeps going on and on and on and on and on about them :-)

Edited August 23, 2010 by algmusic

[JTUK]

I might be one of those...

I got my first GS last summer from Rowbee and liked it in conjunction with a 2x10. This was an improvement over my 1x15, 2x10 option altho it wasn't modular.

Someone on here, think it was Warwickhunt, IIRC, said try 2 as they are so much better paired and the differnce between one and 2 is startling, IME.

The cabs weigh 42lbs, I think and are easy to carry but I don't bother trying to carry one in each hand...as the lightweight is the whole point, IMV. I would rather two very comfortable carries to and from the car.

For me, I like the scooped sound from GS, but I know I could quite easily live with the other options.
I have had them long enough to know how they should work for me and I need very little tweaking soundwise.
8-9 times out of 10, I set the volume and that is all I vere have to do of a gig.
I do think I am lucky in that my match of kit works and it will not be everyones answer, of course.
I also think the mini stack thing works way better than a 2x12 in terms of looks..
The slimline 2x12 cabs looks odd to me...but there isn't that much difference in dims..so, ODD..!!

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='slazman' post='932723' date='Aug 22 2010, 01:18 PM']It is a great cab but probably does not suit my needs in terms of output - the places we mostly play are too small for it - I know I can turn my LMII down a bit but the cabinet does tend to boom a bit even at low volume.[/quote]

That's not the cab's fault, it's down to the room and/or your placement of the cab. The Schroeder is a pretty neutral cab especially at lower volumes.

I've heard people say they want a different cab because they want more bass response, which is fair enough I suppose if you use a lot of BASS rather than low mids, but at low volumes in small rooms if you're having problems you should try harder to make the most of your gear rather than throwing more money at the problem. Move the cab by a foot or a couple of feet away from nearby walls, or lift it onto a crate or something if you're on a hollow stage, stuff like that tends to solve boomy sound issues better than trying a different cab - ultimately if you're asking a different cab to produce the same sound in the same place you will encounter the same problems.

In my experience the 1212L is a quality cab that works well in a multitude of typical gigging band situations and it's worth persevering with. I use mine for both a reggae/punk gig and also to amplify my double bass and it does a good job on both.

[slazman]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='934372' date='Aug 24 2010, 04:15 AM']Move the cab by a foot or a couple of feet away from nearby walls, or lift it onto a crate or something if you're on a hollow stage,[/quote]

Small stages often mean it has to be close to a wall and limits flexibility, however the crate idea could be tried .... can anyone expand on this?

[ezbass]

It isolates you from the hollow floor somewhat, I use an acoustic foam platform for hollow floors. However, while these remedies will help with a boomy stage/floor, they won't help with being in a corner with shiny surfaces, repositioning the cab is your best bet here.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='934372' date='Aug 24 2010, 04:15 AM']Move the cab by a foot or a couple of feet away from nearby walls, or lift it onto a crate or something if you're on a hollow stage, stuff like that tends to solve boomy sound issues better than trying a different cab - ultimately if you're asking a different cab to produce the same sound in the same place you will encounter the same problems.[/quote]

A lot of my gigs are on hollow, boomy stages (social clubs) and i got a Gramma pad a while ago.Its made a world of difference and my tone is a lot clearer without loosing the bottom end.
Might be a cheaper option than changing the cab.

Alex C posted a freq table a few years ago on here and it showed how to position your rig to eliminate various freqs. Ive found that very handy although its not always practical to go by on small stages.

[algmusic]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='934372' date='Aug 24 2010, 04:15 AM']That's not the cab's fault, it's down to the room and/or your placement of the cab. The Schroeder is a pretty neutral cab especially at lower volumes.

I've heard people say they want a different cab because they want more bass response, which is fair enough I suppose if you use a lot of BASS rather than low mids, but at low volumes in small rooms if you're having problems you should try harder to make the most of your gear rather than throwing more money at the problem. Move the cab by a foot or a couple of feet away from nearby walls, or lift it onto a crate or something if you're on a hollow stage, stuff like that tends to solve boomy sound issues better than trying a different cab - ultimately if you're asking a different cab to produce the same sound in the same place you will encounter the same problems.

In my experience the 1212L is a quality cab that works well in a multitude of typical gigging band situations and it's worth persevering with. I use mine for both a reggae/punk gig and also to amplify my double bass and it does a good job on both.[/quote]

I think It can be a horses for courses thing. I've found them to be very loud, but I sometimes, I think it's come across boommy, that said, I've seen some people get some great sounds out of it.. also it's the type of tone you want from the cab.. I think Markbass 1x15 are very controlled but lack a bit of warmth, but work better with a more gritty 2x10 type cab rather than the normal markbass 2x10.. but that's just my opinion.

In terms of placement.. if you're gigging a lot in different places, you might be stuck in a corner and have no choice about placement, so flexibility is key.

[algmusic]

[quote name='slazman' post='934398' date='Aug 24 2010, 07:47 AM']Small stages often mean it has to be close to a wall and limits flexibility, however the crate idea could be tried .... can anyone expand on this?[/quote]


When I use my 2x10, I usually put it on crate, on another amp, monitor or just basically off the ground so it doesn't boom and can cut through

[Muzz]

Yep, I have an acoustic foam pad I use all the time with my 1515L, and this kills the boom and tightens up the bottom end a treat. Oooer missus. It cost relatively beggar all, and makes a massive amount of difference. I used it with my MB 410 too, and it was great with that.

[dave_bass5]

Yeah, i used to have two strips of Platfoam under my cab. This worked just as well as the pad IIR, although it was less stable.
A long strip costs £12 from studio spares and can be cut down to just the right size for a 1212L. Well worth a try IME.

Ive always hated raising my cab off the stage, it seems to loose most of the bottom end but these platforms and foam strips seem to keep the low end but help get rid of the boom.

Edited August 24, 2010 by dave_bass5

[algmusic]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='934592' date='Aug 24 2010, 11:27 AM']Yeah, i used to have two strips of Platfoam under my cab. This worked just as well as the pad IIR, although it was less stable.
A long strip costs £12 from studio spares and can be cut down to just the right size for a 1212L. Well worth a try IME.

Ive al sways hated raising my cab off the stage, it seems to loose most of the bottom end but these platforms and foam strips seem to keep the low end but help get rid of the boom.[/quote]

Has anyone got as link of this stuff?